National Championship?

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National Championship?

Postby bodacious » Sat May 14, 2005 11:02 am

Well, here goes a "can of worms" I know that Rick (West) and Joe (Walter) did what they thought would be the fairest way to open the regatta up to everybody...BUT... something is very wrong with the system that leaves it up to the USPS to decide who sails for our National Championship. I waited until the list was posted ... now the "proof is in the pudding". Something is very wrong when the defending National champion is on a "wait list" to try and defend his championship. Nevermind that some of the other sailing notables are left to "wait" while there are some people on the list who have a hard time finding the weather mark!! IMHO... If the Class is going to have 60+ people interested in sailing in this champioship, there needs to be some form of pre- qualification if you don't have room for everybody! That can be regional, sectional , state, whatever. Just some form of "earning" your way in... not a Postal lottery! Again .... just my opinion.[8D]
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Postby greerdr » Sat May 14, 2005 2:54 pm

I agree.At least about the USPS.Bye the Bye an old joke used to be if you like the postal service you will love socialized health care.

R.C.Greer
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Postby Doug Wotring » Sat May 14, 2005 3:40 pm

I agree and disagree.

IMHO, The Champions regatta is the "National Championship" as it is entirely performance based.

Where as the EC-12 Nationals are just a National Regatta open to "all" as much for socailizing as racing.

On the other hand I agree that there should be some sort of qualification procedure:

But how do you do that?

1st place skipper in each club?

all the guys from the prior years Champions (15) plus 1st place from each EC12 club?

perhaps each club gets so many entries and they can distribute them as they see fit?

At any rate.....it is a new concept and as such I think the outcome was OK.

I assume those on the waiting list were not standing at the door prior to the PO opening.....not really a postal lotery but who got there and was in line first. Really no different than any event where there are limited entries....first come first serve....happens in lots of other events outside of RC sailing.

Heck even old Uncle Sam has a similar setup in reverse for your taxes

forms in by X hour our you get fined
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Postby Doug Wotring » Sat May 14, 2005 3:43 pm

Oh here is a good one.

First, One entry from each state....then after the first go around....you can take a second entry from each state.....

That sounds like a National competition.......but screws some of the fast guys from SC, FL, MD where there are several......

certainly helps those who live in states where there is a lack of active skippers.
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Postby bodacious » Sat May 14, 2005 8:06 pm

The "Champions Regatta" only covers half of the US..... The three different series contested on the East Coast.
How about the top five skippers from each regional championship to start(thats 30 boats) Then when some of those people decline you can open up their slots along with a "lottery" for the remaining positions! I know of at least 2 people who WERE in line when the PO opened and had reciepts stamped within a minute or two of Nine o' clock... and didn't make it in.... It should not come down to how fast a clerk on a time clock feels like selling stamps.
Why not just put everybodies name in a hat and draw out enough people to fill out the regatta.... I think THAT would be more fair. I just think the defending Nat. Champ should not have to worry about defending . I know if I had a regatta with a perpetual trophy and I didn't let the holder into the next regatta.... I wouldn't expect my trophy to show up... LOL Just my humble opinion! DB
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Postby Doug Wotring » Sat May 14, 2005 8:43 pm

Unfortunately the Regional Championship in the NE region is just in name only really., I would not say there is anything special about it that warrants the top 5 in that regatta going over the top 5 in any of the other colonial cup regattas.

Being in line is much different that being first in line. for instance I showed up at 845, soleyy because my watch is wrong....and two people were ahead of me.....so I was in the second group served.

Don't get me wwrong I would like to see another approach.

As far as the Chapions series.....I am sure when other regions get up to speed and have several two day regattas they could join in that series.

Other than Chicago this year I don't know of any two day regattas in the EC12 world.

On that note It would be interesting to see the number of boats registered in each state
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Postby Larry Ludwig » Sun May 15, 2005 1:22 am

I think it's somewhat embarassing that the Victoria class is ahead of us in this regard. They have had a ranking system in place for some years now. There should be some automatic entries... if you are a previous class champion, you should be in. I think the top 3 from the previous year should be automatic. I would go on and make a rule that if you were a regatta winner in an event that had "X" amount of boats entered/finished you should be IN. This is not a hard thing to come up with... you don't have to regulate EVERY slot, but we SHOULD be able to provide passage to the skippers that have earned the right to be there.

If is is a NATIONAL Championship, it should not be just open to anyone that can get there. It should be an EARNED event, and I if *I* were KING... I go the other way first, and make sure that those that earned it were in first, and fill the field with others as needed.

IF I HAD KNOWN that this was going to turn out this way, I would have gone and posted my entry, and then given my slot to someone that needed it. That presents another problem, it was joked about.. but now it's not so funny. What about SCALPING entries??? Is that next?[xx(]
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Postby fvracer1 » Sun May 15, 2005 6:08 pm

First of all, a lot of thanks has to be made to the regatta staff for putting on the regatta and putyting up with all of the belly achin. There is no perfect way to throw a National Championship without stepping on someone's toes. Ownership of an EC12 should not be the only prequalifier. i can only suggest that due to the increase in boats and fleets, that you guys look at what Ray Seta of texas and I implemented last year at the Vic Nats up here in Detroit. With 25 Vics in our club, we could easlily have had an almost all DMYC regatta but utilized in rudimentary fashion a pre qualifier based on results by a certain date of the current calendar year. Automatic invites went to defending National Champion,CS and Race Chairman to use or do with what he chose. Also the host club got 20% of the entries max. Hats off to Frank,Ric and their wives for putting up with us nerds and our toy boats.......

"When the cannon fires, harden up, tack or get out of my way"
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Postby Rick West » Sun May 15, 2005 7:19 pm

I do not disagree with the comments regarding the postal service and our entry program. It was considered that the nationals would fill certainly within week and possible within three days. This was my opinion when discussion in December but to many it was more like a month. This event filled within three minutes and even if it was several hours, this would have been woefully inadequate.

When it was decided that Disney was to be the venue, it was my forethought, innovation and planning that came up with what was done. There were no other suggestions from the advisors and the class had no policy otherwise. So this deal was on me and I thought it was a good one till the 10th when I opened 54 envelope and rapidly ran out of breath in panic.

We are doing the best we can with the situation and have, as this time, filled all channels in all band except 27mhz. The staff knows what it is doing organizationally and the event will be as efficently run as can be. There will be problems because all the bands will be full.

We have never had 60 people send in checks for over a $100 within a fews days for any event five months in advance. Who would have thunk! I can assure you that there are many now that want to talk about what they did not want to talk about three years ago when this problem was forecasted. Ossmosis or a bat up side the head is sometimes that was needed.

...94 [8D]
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Postby bodacious » Sun May 15, 2005 7:25 pm

I don't think anybody is "belly achin"! I believe the input was that while the guys are doing the best they can....Hindsight is 20/20! I think that Rick, Frank and Joe did what they thought to would be a great idea! I don't think anybody could have imagined that 60 guys would be at the post offices around the country waiting for the doors to open. BUT... now that it HAS happened... another method needs to be explored! My original post was that people who should be sailing in the Regatta may be left out! And people who don't have a clue as to what they are doing are in! Hell, I didn't even try to enter for reasons that are my own and have nothing to do with sailing.I just want the National Championship to have all the best sailors sailing! I have heard that the field is going to be expanded beyond the 42 that was started with ..... having run a few regattas and done the scoring for multiple fleets ,I know first hand that it is big undertaking to handle that many boats. My hat is off to Rick and Frank.... I KNOW it will be done right. Doug B[^]
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Postby bodacious » Sun May 15, 2005 7:32 pm

LOL Rick... you were typing while I was typing...... same wavelength! LOL DB[:)] (Keep up the good work)
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Postby Larry Ludwig » Sun May 15, 2005 8:56 pm

I certainly meant no disrespect to the crew of the regatta, I thought that was obvious, but in case it was not... I have complete confidence in the crew in general and Rick in specific in the handling of the event.

This is going to be a learning experience for all involved directly and those only watching from the fringe. I do hope that dialog will be opened and we will go forward as a class and organize for the future. I am pleased as this is all good news because it means that the class is growing and getting stronger than ever before.

I have spent many hours with Ray Seta (as Frank mentioned above) working on this very problem and it is something that can be handled and I believe that everyone here is supportive of the basic idea.

Ray and I disagree in that I want to see the events be larger, and encourage more people to attend... where he sees the need to make the National Championship just that... something that takes more than one win to achieve. By earning your place at the Nats, you make the lower stage events that much more important which is a good thing as well.

More interest in the Regional events will bring out the best of the class nationwide and makes possible the chance to showcase more talent because it is certain that it will never be possible for *everyone* to be able to travel to the Main event every time.

This means as well that growth in numbers and competition will occur all over the country and raising the skill level is a perpetuating thing that causes the local skippers to drive each other to higher and higher levels.

Personally I find all of this quite stimulating as I can remember as a kid when this was all getting started, that each year those numbers were watched so closely in the hopes that each year there would be enough interest to keep the events going. I think this is the most wondeful time in the history of R/C yacht racing and it is truly about to explode Nationwide.[:)]
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