Multi-day regattas

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Multi-day regattas

Postby Bobby Dodger » Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:15 pm

I was glad to see Joe mention in a recent newsletter that the issue of multi-day championship regattas had been raised.

I have raced EC12s in our club for a couple of years, and I race in other classes and travel to some of their regattas. But there is no model yacht regatta on the planet in which I am going to spend more than two days competing. I am not going to take the time away from work, family and other interests, or spend the additional money. I don't think I am the only skipper who feels this way.

I believe the EC12 class and others might see greater participation if such a large commitment of time was not required. Heck, I would have been at the NCR - it was only three hours from my home - if it had been a two day event. I understand all the reasons why one might like to have three or four days, but none of them are sufficiently compelling to cause me to give up that kind of time to race model yachts.

I suggest the class might gain more by giving some consideration to those for whom model yacht racing is not their only interest. If you put them (us?) in a position of having to choose, they may choose to do something else. Shorter regattas make it possible for more people to choose to participate. I don't mind one day events, and have traveled to a number of them.

Just my quantitatively-eased $.02, and worth what it cost you to read it ;-)

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Re: Multi-day regattas

Postby Jack W. » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:51 pm

I agree with Rick, if you look at the scores after day 1, 2 and 3 the top 10 skippers just shuffled around a little bit. Three days is TOO long. Plus the check in the day before adds to the time spent away for little reason. Its time for a change.

A 2 day national and spot check boats is my vote.

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Re: Multi-day regattas

Postby kahle67 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:44 pm

Entries were down a bit this year and there was plenty of race time with two fleet P/R over three days but in the past, when we have to break it down to three fleets, two days is not enough to get a dozen races off. I don't see things changing as far as NCR format.
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Re: Multi-day regattas

Postby Rick West » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:07 am

Jack, my Friend, I do not know the "Rick" you are referring to. I will stand with Reichard to retain our format.

High Point was an example of how two miserable days of sailing changed good results in a last day of good racing conditions. Nonetheless, it is a national championship and like other classes in the AMYA, three days is the weathering mark for a champion.

I am welcome to hear top 10 NCR finalists and their comment but do not think it less than said here. It is the one time of the year the top competitors come to contest for the bell. They need to met the ordeal as presented by the conditions.
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Re: Multi-day regattas

Postby Capt. Flak » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:24 pm

I am glad to see the conversation on this. I really did not expect it when I mentioned the CAC would be discussing measuring in the newsletter. But, it is good to hear from people on this issue.

I do want to clear up something though. I am not proposing changing the racing format of the event. I feel the National Championship needs to remain a three (days of racing) event. Like Reichard said, we usually have three fleets and there is no way to sort out a competitive regatta with 3 fleets in only 2 days. It is important to the NCR. All the rest of the regattas are 1.5-days of racing and there are a growing number 1-day regattas starting up in the class. I support them completely and I encourage everyone to attend them when they can. A full day of racing in a single fleet is a lot of fun and worth it if there is a short drive.

What I am trying to do is eliminate the measuring day. This will mean one or more days less travel and hotel costs. Not to mention the extra days of eating out for breakfast, lunch and dinner. I have already received a number of emails about ways to make it work and the CAC and I will be discussing it in the coming weeks. I feel that we can all get our boats measured prior to the Nationals and Regionals by going to a class approved measurer. There would be some kind of stamp or certificate that says this boat has been checked and is legal. Then that skipper will be on the honor system to assure he has not altered the boat or gets it rechecked if changes have been made. It is also not out of the question that we simply eliminate pre-measuring all together and instead measure only the trophy winning boats after the regatta. I think having your trophy taken away is plenty of incentive to make sure your boat is class legal.

Of course we will still be ready to measure boats at the Nationals for those bringing a new boat or if another skipper files a protest on a boat he feels may not be legal.

I have heard conversations over the years that if an EC12 is not built to the rules, it will not be competitive. Waterlines greater or less than the rule are often slower. Too narrow or too wide is also slow. So other than oversized A sails, it does not serve a skipper to try and push the rules, to gain a speed advantage. Still, we do have a class rule and boats need to be legal to compete.

I will keep the class informed along the way as we figure this out.

How we go about this is unclear right now, but again, the intent is to save the Wednesday check-in and measuring. Not to reduce the time we have to race
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Re: Multi-day regattas

Postby Rick West » Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:34 pm

I cleared with Joe that a suggestion and comment was proper for this string.

The Class can prepare a certificate of measurements and verification of the waterline by local tanking. (I still maintain that weighting a properly trimmed EC12 accomplishes the same thing but this is not part of the Rules unfortunately.)

The form is signed by the competitor and submitted with the entry form and payment by email or mail.
This keeps it simple and the details can be worked out by the CAC for administration.

That done a Class Policy can be drawn up that would include verification of the entry list by the CS and a lakeside challenge.
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Re: Multi-day regattas

Postby Capt. Flak » Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:45 pm

Thanks for the input Rick. What ever we come up with, there will need to be a Class Policy for it.

Clearly there is interest in this issue by class members, so anyone wishing to contribute, please do share your thoughts here. Or send me personal emails if you prefer.
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Re: Multi-day regattas

Postby Merv49 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:26 pm

I didn't get to attend the NCR this year but not because of the length of the event. I enjoy the competition and comradery and don't see the event as an infringement on the other things in life I'm interested in doing.
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Re: Multi-day regattas

Postby DBrawner » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:12 pm

I'll just throw a bit of history at this one. The reason we have used a three day event schedule for the past 22 years is because of bad weather that limited the two day event at Red Witch(?) MYC in 1991 to just 7 races. The third day just in case it would be needed. Though, when we started the three day events, measurement was accomplished on Thursday morning.

I wouldn't mind the elimination of the Wednesday measurement day, but do feel strongly that the boats must be certified as legal BEFORE any heats are run. I trust the class advisory committee will come up with a viable solution.
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Re: Multi-day regattas

Postby bigfoot55 » Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:58 pm

Occasionally someone will ask about ONE DAY regattas. The EC12 Class is fortunate to have significant interest in racing that has developed over time into 4 series of two-day competitions, Region 1- NEW ENGLAND CUP, 2-COLONIAL CUP, 3-DIXIE CUP, and the 7- FLORIDA CHAMPIONSHIP. While each of these includes a REGION CHAMPIONSHIP REGATTA, these lead up to a regional trophy and the top skippers are invited to the 2-day CHAMPIONS REGATTA, which is the only invitational restricted entry regatta on our schedule. This is not a class function, it is run separately and is supported by the class.

Over time, the two-day regatta has become the standard listed on the Class Sailing Schedule on the website. Not everyone has the stamina, time or inclination to do multi-day regattas.

The Class also has a few one day regattas that are not included in the regional cups. We do include them in the Discussion Forum Regatta section, and have included posting them on the class web site front page and they can be posted on the AMYA schedule as long as they are open to any AMYA member.

There is absolutely no reason a club cannot have a one day regatta, and it has been done in Atlanta GA, Chambersburg, PA and Mt Laurel NJ in recent years. Peachtree City is trying to organize a couple over the winter. We hope that other states and areas will begin organized racing as well. These regattas are a good way to grow skippers who want to participate in the two day regattas.
More Regattas-more fun.
Want to get a one day regatta on the class schedule? Let us know. Date, Name, location, venue, contact person and NOR info. To be on the sailing schedule it must be open to any class member.

Contact our Regatta Schedule Coordinator Fran DiTomaso frandito(at)sc.rr.com
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Re: Multi-day regattas

Postby Rick West » Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:06 pm

This year has brought much talk for changes to our racing format and what is scheduled. I presided over the class during a long period of growth and stability in racing formats and hull standards through rule changes. There were polls and legal balloting. I'd like to see more input from the membership regarding recent proposals; enough to get a feeling for leadership.

I would also like to see some polls of the membership to justify changes and what the regional input is. There is nothing wrong with changes or even accommodation to certain groups. First we should be presented with the depth of the membership's interest.

We cannot expect to hear from all the members. History has shown that about 100 will sound off. A series of polls with results published to all would be serious motion than private phone calls stirring a small pot. Which is it?
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Re: Multi-day regattas

Postby dplin2001 » Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:30 pm

I like the three days of racing. I would like to see the ability to measure boats at regional regatta's. I like the idea of 5 or 6 guys being class certified measurement guys and boats getting a measurement certificate, that would eliminate the measurement day at the NATS. And yes I'll volunteer to be one of the guys.
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Re: Multi-day regattas

Postby breakwater » Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:58 pm

I agree entirely with what was just stated.

I recently purchased a second-hand boat in a different AMYA Class-
Upon contacting the class secretary, I was presented with no less than 28 different measurers in the USA. and Four more in Canada.
They wanted all kinds of stuff for it. A full physical and "Statue of limitations" or time between when it's registered and when it has to be measured.
I sent them the Certificate from the previous owner's measurement process -

They said.
Oh, Yes. Sorry about all that.
Please send your seven bucks, and we'll see you at the next regatta!
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Re: Multi-day regattas

Postby s vernon » Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:50 pm

Dave PLin, I think the desired plan might be to not measure boats at any regatta - do it in our spare time between regattas. Maybe every fleet could have a measurer like someone for north Atlanta (me?) and you for south of Atlanta. People would perhaps be required to bring their boat to the home of a measurer.

Since I am here, I think the original idea for this thread (the words from Joe) was to talk about shortening the NCR to just the 3 race days (try to get away from an added measuring day), not to talk about shortening the NCR to 2 days, but I guess that idea needed discussion. I would vote to keep it at 3 race days. Seems to me that 3 days of racing is something that makes the NCR a better test which makes it more special.
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