measurements for pre 95 hulls

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measurements for pre 95 hulls

Postby whays » Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:29 pm

looking for beam measurements for pre 95 hull, Thanks
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Postby bigfoot55 » Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:48 pm

Which mfg do you need? I have Treasure Tooling spec.

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Postby Columbia » Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:10 am

I could use measurements for an Ozman while we are at it. I like to confirm before i install the new deck againg.


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Postby Rick West » Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:32 am

The current rules state the beam measurements for current building. The hulls, if verified, are grandfathered...just the hulls and not previous editions of the rules.

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Postby Columbia » Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:20 am

Another thing that's been bugging me, what happen in 95? I was out of sailing at the time. It seems like something big happened then. The rules sure have changed on the hull. I see there are tight rules on manufacturing also. I'm not against progress but I noticed these new hulls are paper thin. This might be a touchy subject for some.
Just curious.

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Postby whays » Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:16 pm

that would work, as this hull was from that mold, thanks for the help. <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by bigfoot55</i>

Which mfg do you need? I have Treasure Tooling spec.

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<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
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Postby whays » Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:26 pm

"verified hulls", does that mean boats in the registry?<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Rick West</i>

The current rules state the beam measurements for current building. The hulls, if verified, are grandfathered...just the hulls and not previous editions of the rules.

...94 [8D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
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Postby Rick West » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:25 am

The Registry was not mentioned here. If you have a Treasure Tooling hull that has never been registered that means it could be anything.

There is a lot of information that leads to verifying a hull. Names, places, information inside the hull, numbers in the hull or on sails then photos of the hull/boat and of the rudder.

When an EC12 is registered we need to know it is an EC12, not just one that looks an EC12. This protects the owner and all that she will follow to that she is an EC12.

In the nutshell from a very long story documented was why and how the EC12 hull standard was developed in the 90's and then in 2005 with certification at the manufacturer's level through registration before the owner gets the hull. When you read the EC12 Optimizing Manual you come to understand it was more than hobbyist and craftsmen that produced nearly the same hull of the 70's and one to the heritage of the scale boat the model represents in our ponds.

The hull today is not that far different from Charlie Morgans test tank model and is a true one-design hull throughout its creation.

Anyone with skill can take any hull and make a mold of it then produce hulls from it and call it an EC12. It is not an EC12 and it is the responsibility of the class to assure that look alikes do not dilute this long road to preserve the heritage.

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Postby whays » Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:59 pm

I'm referring to hull AMYA #588, the deck was damaged and needs to be replaced. I can take measurements off AMYA #587, However, I was concerned because at the time it was built, 30 years ago, it was a plus or minus a 1/4in. and after 30 years I have no idea of its variances. In a ? to you, under Ask the Secretary, I tried to clear up the manufacturer, Topic #587 and #588. You were kind enough to put me in touch with Buddy Black, who said Skip Hickman built them. The mold these boats we made in were the ones Buddy had once owned, the reason for my reference to treasure tooling. 587 wass last raced in ACCR 1980, and will be back in the water this weekend. I've owned both boats since 1980.
You raise a question, before entering a regatta will I have to have these boat verified and by who? <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Rick West</i>

The Registry was not mentioned here. If you have a Treasure Tooling hull that has never been registered that means it could be anything.

There is a lot of information that leads to verifying a hull. Names, places, information inside the hull, numbers in the hull or on sails then photos of the hull/boat and of the rudder.

When an EC12 is registered we need to know it is an EC12, not just one that looks an EC12. This protects the owner and all that she will follow to that she is an EC12.

In the nutshell from a very long story documented was why and how the EC12 hull standard was developed in the 90's and then in 2005 with certification at the manufacturer's level through registration before the owner gets the hull. When you read the EC12 Optimizing Manual you come to understand it was more than hobbyist and craftsmen that produced nearly the same hull of the 70's and one to the heritage of the scale boat the model represents in our ponds.

The hull today is not that far different from Charlie Morgans test tank model and is a true one-design hull throughout its creation.

Anyone with skill can take any hull and make a mold of it then produce hulls from it and call it an EC12. It is not an EC12 and it is the responsibility of the class to assure that look alikes do not dilute this long road to preserve the heritage.

...94 [8D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
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Postby greerdr » Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:58 am

We had a long and fruitful period of registration/certification and even grace...let that boats in.
That time has passed.
If the heritage of the vessel cannot be traced to a valid builder; the CS is restricted in his options.
We have hull builders today working very hard to preserve the one design shape of the approved plugs and that progeny.
I'd submit that unknown hulls without clear pedigree to approved builders are not elgible for inclusion in the class.
Decision of course resides with the CS and his advisors.

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Postby bigfoot55 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:40 am

Both are Reynolds hulls and registered to bill 1980.
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Postby Rick West » Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:05 am

Bill,
Some time ago you asked me for contact information for Buddy Black, as I recall, which I provided for his son. We have not talked since.

The Class today is far more informed and the boat one of the most documented in the AMYA. The Class site, where you signed on for these discussions has all the resources a builder and racer could want. It is often the details that we discuss here or provide help in finding the answers. The Class Registry is located here and so are the rules and policies we function with, as a group.

You will note in the Registry that you were registered to a pair of Reynolds Manufacturing hulls in July of 1980, YRN (sail numbers) 587 and 588. There is no mention in the paper records about Hickman or Treasure Tooling in regards to these boats.

A pre 1995 boat or hull must be verified if it has never been registered, as I commented on above. This was before you mentioned the numbers of the sails. That, your name and your stated location in the profile here, easily identified the boats and your registrations. People find old boats and hulls, as these things outlive us, and I do searches for information, history and in nearly all case with Class records and some help of the finder, verify them.

For your own information, all the Reynolds hull from that era that are in use today have a large label resined in the hull by John Reynolds when he produced them. You might check for it is likely they are there in aft inside part of the hull. Additionally, the current rules to measurements differ little to those used in the late 70's and 80's. You will note in the Rules linked on the Class site to a printable file that the beam measurements provide the same 1/4" variance.

The Class down through the years has protected your ownership with good records and management. Likewise, it has protected the heritage of our beginning by documenting through the years without excluding the older boats from all the manufacturers that participated in the organization and building of the Class. The one exception is the Dumas Products boat in special circumstance.

If you are still an AMYA member, I can provide you with personal registration documentation for your boats and yourself as owner, if you need them.

I hope this clears up issues for you. I and the volunteer staff of the Class are here to serve the members where we can.

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Postby whays » Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:31 pm

I found this website, some time back and enjoyed visiting it. Started and old fire. Looked in registry found both boats listed as Reynolds as manfacturer, knew that was not correct, (don't know how they were registered as Reynolds). As I pointed out on 3/24/10 Ask the Secretary, forum, #587-#588, thanks, to you, I did talk to Buddy Black, who said the boats were built by Skip Hickmam. Both boats have a blue AMYA stick and I have the 3x5 cards, that were registry at the time. #587 have been redone and ready to go. I understand the need to keep the class"correct", that is what I was trying to do. Just want to sail a few regatta, this winter in florida, and enjoy old age. I was planning on joining AMYA, today but will hold off, till the legitimacy of these boats is cleared up. Thanks, did not intend to open a can of worms.
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Postby s vernon » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:11 am

William,

If your boats are Hickman hulls then wouldn't you be able to look inside and see the random fibers? I am assuminig that Reynolds made hulls using all fiberglass cloth so the randomw fibers would rule out them being Reynolds hulls and lack of random fibers would mean they probably are Reynolds.

Are you unable to locate a manufacturers sticker inside the boats, besides the AMYA sticker?

The good news for you is that the boats do not need anything to be cleared up in order for you to race them in regattas. They are already in the registery, so they can be raced. My belief anyway.

It was good to meet you. Looking forward to sailing with you.

Scott
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Postby Rick West » Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:12 pm

Well, I think it was can that did not need to be opened if all the information was known from the start.

The boats are in the Registry, they have sail number stickers in them and you have the registration cards. Take them to Florida and visit the local group and sail. Enjoy them. The Class and the AMYA only get involved in organized racing and maintain a registry for that purpose. It is "Y'all Come" every Sunday.

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