Dumas Hull

Got a question on the EC12 class rules, ask the secretary
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Postby Capt. Flak » Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:53 am

Wow, guys. I am sorry I missed all this. I have been reading for more than an hour trying to catch up. For my 2 cents, the idea of a vintage EC12 class is wrong.

Firstly, only a couple of hulls have been outlawed because they were not made to guidelines specified by the class or the builder did not want to go to the new standard as is the case with Dumas.

The 95 standard is not a new EC12. It is simply one of the many different variations of EC12s that was selected to be the standard. Remember that there used to be many different molds. Each with one thing slightly different from the next. The 95 standard simply stopped the differences from continuing, which would ultimately change the class.

What HAS changed is the way the hulls have been built and the type of equipment used in them. The boats and rigs are lighter and so more lead can be used. this makes for a stiffer boat and thus a better performing boat.

All of the older, pre 95 hulls, are still legal. the rules did not change. You can leave them the way they are and sail at the back of the fleet, or you can refit them as many have and move up to the front.

I have a nearly 30 year old Treasure Tooling hull with a Dumas deck. It is very tender. But I rebuilt everything on it exept the deck and the lead, and that boat won me a bunch of trophies. Just so you know I have only been doing this as long as the 95 standard has been in use, so I am not talking about beating other old boats here. Yes, I have a new 95 standard now, but I still plan to finish the rebuild on the old boat with a new lead pour and new balsa deck. then I am going to take it out an kick some 95 standard butt.

If the hull is still in good shape, it can be rebuilt to be very competitive. And if it is an old Puritan or Ozmun hull, you better get out of the way.

The 95 standard is nothing more than a preservation move to keep the class strong. The old hulls are still good, they just need some work and a good thumb.

Now if all you guys with bang bang winches (or whatever they are called) want to keep those boats as they are, that is fine. But please don't go messing with the rest of the class. The biggest problem the AMYA has is too many classes. Take a look at Europe. They only have three classes and R/C sailing is 10 times as big as it is here in the States.

As for the entry limits for the Nationals, it is needed. There will be plenty of notice for everyone to find out when and how to enter and there will be plenty of time for the word-of-mouth to get around for those who do not keep up with this site. My feeling is that everyone who wants to go will get in. 42 boats is a big number. It has not been hit yet in the EC12 class to my knowledge.

And if you happen to miss the slots and you desparately need to go, bribery always works. :)


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Postby RodCarr » Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:52 am

This is the 3rd or 4th iteration of this "discussion" since the class was founded. The first one was back about 1975 when someone suggested that the Buddy Black hulls should sail in a special class because they were "better" than the others. Likewise, when Ozmun hulls hit the class, some recommended that older hulls should sail in what amounted to a class-wide B-division. Luckily neither advice was taken and the class continued its growth.

The older hulls provide a supply of readily available boats that can put a new skipper on the water quickly. If older hulls are not "competitive", neither are new skippers in their first year of sailing the EC-12. But if the new skipper really gets bitten by the EC-12 bug, he'll persevere, upgrade the old boat or go through the effort of building a new one. In my opinion, any administrative decision that makes older boats unavailable to compete in the class is cutting our own throat. I agree with the correspondent who said that a Class Secretary is supposed to guard and promote the class and its skippers.

Given the history of manufacturing "crises" that the class has lived with during its 35 year history, a supply of used boats is a welcome back up when the new boats are hard to get in a timely manner.

I might point out that the 36/600 class tried to split itself and ultimately lost half of its skippers when one side of the split failed. The other side has never recovered its original vitality and numbers.

At least this is my opinion from what I can remember.
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Postby Larry Ludwig » Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:59 am

I don't think that there should be any division of the class, but likewise I don't see any problem with the older boats having their own party. If someone wants to have a regatta, or series of regattas as the case may be for older boats... why not?

There was mention early on about not destroying the older boats in an effort to make them competitive. It simply is not practical to do so, and the time and money and effort spent would be put to much more efficient use with a new hull. This leaves the older hull collecting dust... and again... brings us back to full circle what this was all about... getting out the older boats. There are plenty of skippers that can do well with an older boat... but there are a lot MORE boats out there that are being left behind, and it is a shame.

I think that as a class we owe it to those boat owners to offer something that they can make use of and enjoy. Unless someone starts campaigning a 25 year old hull and winning with it, I think that it is safe to say that most people would prefer to put there eggs into the best basket they can obtain.... not the older heavier ones of yesteryear.

Then the klinker in the whole thing is the boats that for whatever reason have fallen through the cracks, and are no longer eligible to be registered. That is the real tragedy here. If there is a real snag this would be it. While on one hand it would be an outlet/option for boats that cannot be registered under the current rules... giving them a place to go, it would then fall to the Heritage group to decide what is proper... and that could be a tug `o war.

There is a seniors tour for golfers... the guys that were playing on the PGA tour when those boats were made are all there now... why not a seniors group for the EC-12? Nothing limits them from playing on the PGA tour... except for the fact that they just can't make the cut... then again... if they have a hot hand and make a few good shots.. they just might make a tourney here and there. Same thing here... Anyone wanting to race an older (registered) boat is certainly welcome to give it a go... I can't believe that anyone hear is suggesting that the older boats be dissalowed from any competition.. if anything it was the other way around... and I can't see anything wrong with a Vintage EC-12 group hosting their own regattas.

I also think that it would make for an extremely interesting annual regatta to have a grudge match of the top older boats vs the top of the class today.

It has no effect on the current standings or racing for the traditional fleet while at the same time has the chance to bring some otherwise dry docked boats back out into the sunlight where they belong.

There was mention of the current events and their attendance and the question of offering skippers another venue at the risk of reducing the attendance, and once again I feel confident in saying that if someone is winning with an older boat... they are not going to leave (never see that in Vegas) and by the same token, if someone has an older boat and wants to race but is getting hammered by all the new technology, what could possibly be wrong with wanting to race with a more even group?

I think by helping the older boats have fun we help the class as a whole, and that should be the primary objective for us all.[:)]
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Postby bigdog » Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:54 pm

This has been my point all along.
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