Dumas Hull

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Postby yachtie » Wed Jan 05, 2005 9:58 pm

Hi all - interesting thread regarding different hulls.
Down here in NZ we have a number of variations amongst our first 50 boats in that after the first boat arrived a number of molds were flopped off the first few boats and flopped again giving discrepencies between them.

In the early 90's NZ obtained (via Australia) the failed IEC12 plug which is the shape that has been used for nearly 70 boats (hey small numbers I know compared to US - but remember we only have 120 boats[:D])

Having sailed both shapes - I own NZL1 - the original hull which came from Australia and a new boat NZL110 it is interesting to note that the only real difference is not so much the hull shape but the syntax used to operate the boat [xx(] i.e the OPERATOR!! In our 2003 Nationals I was 4th o/all with the old boat and in 2004 4th again with new boat. The main differnce between these hulls is the new ones are much fatter in the guts, but essentially the same.

The classs rules here are not to disimilar to the US - complete with a grandfathering bit for old shape hulls.

IMHO the rules cover old and new boats - they have the same waterline maximum length which means similar weight and the same shape sails. The only real variable other than a few mm here and there is the OPERATOR[8D].

We regularly see old and new boats beating each other on the day 0- regardless of how windy it is. Give a top skipper an old boat and he will still perform well.

So from an outsiders perspective of the US EC12 fleet - keep ALL THE BOATS TOGETHER [:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

Must get back and enjoy our summer[:(] Hasn't stopped raining for days and we've got "summer" floods here again[V]




Chris
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&
NZL110 Swept Away
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Postby MichaelJ2K » Thu Jan 06, 2005 2:20 pm

How about this idea guys:
Do a "re-registration" of the older, no longer active boats. One prerequisite is that the boat must have been previously registered, have the original AMYA registration sticker in the hull or the registration card. Take a pictures of the boat rigged if possible, the sticker (if possible), the registration card and send the pictures with a registration form to Rick with $6 attached. Run the registration period for say, three to six months. If it has a number that can be proved, make it active. If not, hang it on the wall.

It's just a thought, maybe it will put an end to the "new boat - old boat" discussion and prevent the class from fragmenting.
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Postby Doug Wotring » Thu Jan 06, 2005 2:20 pm

Rather than a seperate class why not have an invitational regatta with the requirement being a minimum Hull age.....

this would not likely dilute the class but allow these old boats to get on the water and compete with their kind
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Postby Jim Linville » Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:27 pm

Sorry I started this thread. My intent was to see if I could make my old boat competitive, not to spark the start of a whole new class (please no more T-36s). Bottom line is that I want to race against the big boys. If my old boat isn't competitive it needs to be polished up and retied.

However, (if it must be), something like the Vintage Marblehead class could work. I believe that (except for Nationals) they race on the same days as the Skaples. --Jim Linville
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Postby fvracer1 » Fri Jan 07, 2005 10:57 am

If you truly wanted to make a Vintage class, then my suggestion would be to make the "Vintage" boats sail with Dacron sails, but yet allow them to switch rigs to a tri -spi/ a b c configurations for Class racing. To restrict the older boats to a vintage class is wrong and ultimatly would lead to a split in fleets and clubs, wherein we gain strength in numbers. If you want to race an older boat, get a dacron b rig. Good training ground and ultimatly these sailors can upgrade to the newer sails..... IMHO[:o)]#575

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Postby Doug Wotring » Fri Jan 07, 2005 1:03 pm

Jim,

To answer your initial question:

Yes you can make your old boat more competitive.....the teory of building has change alot in 20 years as have the parts available.

we refit my old dumas New Rig, booms, sails and I put a return spring on the sails stick so I did not have to remeber to pit it at neutral to stop the winch. If it were still my boat I would reballast it.....and grind off the spray gaurd as it is just weight with no purpose would also think about losing the Dumas hatch ( it's small and heavy....although mine was like a watertight door perfect for when it would submarine downwind in realy heavy air.

I would also get rid of the Dumas Rudder.....it is heavy and has alot less surface area that the rudders that are currently available. We have a large collection of super heavy rudders in the club shop.......amazing how much they weigh

I also had to move the mast forward of the spray gaurd to get the right CE/CR ballance.

We did a similar refit on another old boat laast winter and it made a world of difference in the overall performance of it.

tHINGS TO DO:

1. New Sails/rig
2. new rudder
3. reballast
4. Lose weight topside
5. new sail winch

"everything can be made fast if you throw enough money and time at it".
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Postby greerdr » Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:25 pm

I didn't think you were BORN by 1980,much less building.Keep up the great work-see you in Febuary in Palm Beach Gardens,Fl.

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Postby Jim Linville » Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:50 am

Thanks, Doug. This is exactly the info I wanted. I downloaded Paul P's plans, so I guess the rudder shape shown there will be the latest. Additionally, I've ordered an RMG 280 and removed the deck (not and easy task). I'm assuming that my old Goldspar Masts will be OK (a lotta extra screw holes though), but will be ordering new sails. George Greenhalgh (40 miles away) has a tank so I need to get together with him to determine what needs to be done with the ballast. Thanks, to all.
--Jim Linville
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Postby Doug Wotring » Sat Jan 08, 2005 12:14 pm

Jim,

What are your plans for the new deck.....the dumas deck had no sub structure.....so if your going with a balsa deck you will need to make ribs

Doug
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Postby Jim Linville » Sat Jan 08, 2005 2:33 pm

I only cut away portions of the deck. I left a king plank and a series of 1/2 inch deck beams located at the dimensions where Paul's plans call for beams. That is, there are a number of large holes in the fiberglass deck. I did this for access to the interior for reballasting more than any other reason. My plan is to cover thesse holes with a single piece of teak veneer onto which I will scribe planks. I doubt that it will lower the topside weight much. Can I cut down the freeboard if I maintain the 42-43 inch waterline? [;)]
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Postby s vernon » Sat Jan 08, 2005 9:32 pm

Jim,

Rule 3.3 Alteration to the manufactured hull by sawing, cutting, or adding any material to the exterior of the hull that would change the profile, contours or shape in any way is prohibited.

Sounds like you want to change the profile - cut down the freeboard by sawing or cutting the hull. You need to lower the freeboard by filing or sanding not sawing or cutting.

You one meter guy - You probably think you can get by on that technicality. humor

Scott
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Postby Doug Wotring » Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:26 pm

If you reduce freeboard I think you might be altering the boat too much from Manufactured specs.....

Also consider if you reduce freeboard you will have more deck awash while heeled at max.....might make it slow
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Postby Rob Stagis » Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:32 pm

Might as well throw my hat in, too, I guess. My Ozmun boat is race 967. My dad's Hickman is 959 (I think), I race regularly agaibst a guy with a registered Dumas hull - and he's wildly up in arrms about the rule precluding old Dumas boats, since he's building one for a prospective clubmember now. I know the rule's been out there for a long while, but what happens when my Ozmun is excluded? Or the (numerous) Hickmans we have in the club? Yeah, we're more dilettantes than anything else, but if the class restricts older hulls and gets more restrictive, I know my club will pull the plug (get it? plug? mold? Hehehehehhee) on racing them - and the results wouldn't be politically good.
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Postby Doug Wotring » Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:34 pm

I'll beat Rick to the punch here.......

I don't think there is any talk of excluding older boats from the class......as long as these older not 95 standard legal hulls meet the grandfather clause

as long as you dad's and your boats are properly registered they can compete for as long as they are able.....

now for the guy who is building a Dumas boat for someone......I believe that new boat buyer will not be able to sail at AMYA sanctioned events as his boqat will not be registerable....something both the buyer and builder should have been aware of prior to purchasing a Dumas Kit.

This will not limit the ability of this new boat to compete ate your club level. We have several non AMYA members in our club, I believ3e all of thier boats were registered at one time...but a few are not presently registered.....they do not travel to regattas.....but are active locally.
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Postby bigdog » Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:57 pm

I am sorry if anyone who owns a pre 1980 hull feels that I have suggested that we exclude them from participating in EC-12 racing as we know it. My only suggestion here was for people that did not want to take a chance on damaging their boats during a refit, or more importantly, who wanted to sail them with others as they are, would have a venue to do so.

At no point would I consider doing anything to fragment our class as we know it or do anything to reduce attendence at regattas.

To me, this idea gives boats that are gathering dust a chance to be used and enjoyed again.

If no one is interested in this thought, then so be it.

Dog
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