I wish I had taken a closer look at what type of radio Winston has. I was told that the module would fit the U series Futaba, so I was not that interested in Winston's radio. However per the website it will not fit. The only radios they talk about are pistol grip for cars and motor boats. Winston has a 3 channel stick radio.
Quite a concept - a not terribly expensive radio system where 79 boats can sail on 80 2.4 ghz frequencies in addition to the boats on 27, 50, 75 mhz frequencies.
What kind/model of stick radio is it?
www.spektrumrc.com/DSM/FAQs/Default.aspx
The what it is page lists the various pistol grip radios.
Thank you,
Scott
2.4 ghz radio system
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2.4 ghz radio system
by s vernon » Mon May 16, 2005 6:23 pm
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by Winston » Mon May 16, 2005 9:05 pm
As mentioned above, the Spektrum system allows up to 79 simultaneous users on the 2.4GHz band. No channel assignments, just turn on your radio and sail (the "smart" radio finds an open channel) there is no interference. See www.spektrumrc.com .
Spektrum makes modules that only fit and function with 3 channel module type "car" radios (most of which are pistol grip and wheel type).
Three "stick" radios are known to work with this system: Airtronics EXZES, Hitec Eclipse Pro Car and Futaba 3VC. You must order the appropriate module and receiver from Spektrum to replace the module that comes with the radio. The minimum cost of this would be about $460 up to about $690 for the Futaba.
You may have to order the radio from a foreign country off of a website. Plug in your search engine and see.
If you use an RMG winch with this system you are OK with any manufactured April '05 and later. Compatibility issues with winches manufactured before this date can be dealt with. See the website www.users.bigpond.com/rmgsw .
I have the Airtronics radio partly due to the fact that Rob Guyatt of RMG has been using one with this system with success (but he does have a Hitec on order). Rob has been very helpful in bringing me up to speed on this and in distilling the information down to the essentials I have listed above.
Rob made this observation: "...since the limit is due to available channels, there's a good case to allow "first in first served" till all the slots are filled but then continue to allow Spectrum DSM users to enter on top of that number. Due to the way Spektrum works, there is no limit to the number of entrants with that system. That's simply because even with fleets as large as 20 yachts, there's no possibility of running out of channels. In the case of more than 79 DSM users, all that's needed is to ask all skippers to turn off their DSM systems and then let the next fleet turn on to ensure they get "locked in" to a channel. Once that's happened the remaining channels can be used up by skippers fiddling with their boats if they so desire on the side lines between their heats."
Winston Mathews
Spektrum makes modules that only fit and function with 3 channel module type "car" radios (most of which are pistol grip and wheel type).
Three "stick" radios are known to work with this system: Airtronics EXZES, Hitec Eclipse Pro Car and Futaba 3VC. You must order the appropriate module and receiver from Spektrum to replace the module that comes with the radio. The minimum cost of this would be about $460 up to about $690 for the Futaba.
You may have to order the radio from a foreign country off of a website. Plug in your search engine and see.
If you use an RMG winch with this system you are OK with any manufactured April '05 and later. Compatibility issues with winches manufactured before this date can be dealt with. See the website www.users.bigpond.com/rmgsw .
I have the Airtronics radio partly due to the fact that Rob Guyatt of RMG has been using one with this system with success (but he does have a Hitec on order). Rob has been very helpful in bringing me up to speed on this and in distilling the information down to the essentials I have listed above.
Rob made this observation: "...since the limit is due to available channels, there's a good case to allow "first in first served" till all the slots are filled but then continue to allow Spectrum DSM users to enter on top of that number. Due to the way Spektrum works, there is no limit to the number of entrants with that system. That's simply because even with fleets as large as 20 yachts, there's no possibility of running out of channels. In the case of more than 79 DSM users, all that's needed is to ask all skippers to turn off their DSM systems and then let the next fleet turn on to ensure they get "locked in" to a channel. Once that's happened the remaining channels can be used up by skippers fiddling with their boats if they so desire on the side lines between their heats."
Winston Mathews
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by s vernon » Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:50 am
Surprising info – The Spektrum 2.4 ghz system apparently can be used with any old Futaba U series radio. $160 from Hozizon Hobbies for the module and rcvr.
All around good guy and well known reliable expert Steve Anddre on Windpower Discussion Group says that he uses the Spektrum 2.4 ghz system with his 8U radio.
His words:
I like my set. Only two precautions: make sure the receiver antenna sticks out at least one inch from the end of any plastic antenna tube; don't run out of batteries. The system goes into fail safe as soon as the battery voltage drops below 4 volts. No warning from the servos that I use! They seem to work normally and then, Boom! I now use 2700mAH to power the receiver and the winch.
I use the Spektrum on my......8 channel Futaba 8U. It works great, I don't need more than 3 channels so the Spektrum receiver works fine.
I was told that the Spektrum would turn off in a radio that had more than 3 channels. Has not happened yet. I wonder if this was a story to set the airplane guys "off the scent". There is not a receiver greater than 3 channels anyways, but I have heard that some of the crew at Spektrum are working on an air compatible system.
The Spektrum module fits into the 8U and 8U super like it was an original module. The old TP75FM and the newer TJ modules that fit in the 3PK are the ones that work in the 8U, and since the Spektrum was designed for the 3PK....
The only thing I need to do is turn on the transmitter first and then plug in the Spektrum module. There are 5 pins and sockets between the module and transmitter. Evidently one of them is redundant on the Spektrum module compared to the Futaba module, Instead of disabling the pin and and affecting the transmitter's use with my 27MHz and 75MHz modules, I just plug in the Spektrum after turning on the transmitter.
The body of the transmitter does have the circuitry that controls the pulse widths, but the carrier frequency of the signal is always is generated by the module regardless of the frequency band or modulation type of the RF circuit. The pulse width is not affected by the carrier frequency (channel) on a "healthy" transmitter. If a non-DSM RF module, crystals or synthesized, is not tuned properly, the pulse could be carried on another frequency and picked up by another receiver. On Spektrum modules, the frequency is "verified" and selected automatically preventing any Spektrum from taking control of a frequency that is already in use.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByCate ... ID=SPM1004
I hope Steve does not mind me reprinting his words and misspelling his last name.
Scott
All around good guy and well known reliable expert Steve Anddre on Windpower Discussion Group says that he uses the Spektrum 2.4 ghz system with his 8U radio.
His words:
I like my set. Only two precautions: make sure the receiver antenna sticks out at least one inch from the end of any plastic antenna tube; don't run out of batteries. The system goes into fail safe as soon as the battery voltage drops below 4 volts. No warning from the servos that I use! They seem to work normally and then, Boom! I now use 2700mAH to power the receiver and the winch.
I use the Spektrum on my......8 channel Futaba 8U. It works great, I don't need more than 3 channels so the Spektrum receiver works fine.
I was told that the Spektrum would turn off in a radio that had more than 3 channels. Has not happened yet. I wonder if this was a story to set the airplane guys "off the scent". There is not a receiver greater than 3 channels anyways, but I have heard that some of the crew at Spektrum are working on an air compatible system.
The Spektrum module fits into the 8U and 8U super like it was an original module. The old TP75FM and the newer TJ modules that fit in the 3PK are the ones that work in the 8U, and since the Spektrum was designed for the 3PK....
The only thing I need to do is turn on the transmitter first and then plug in the Spektrum module. There are 5 pins and sockets between the module and transmitter. Evidently one of them is redundant on the Spektrum module compared to the Futaba module, Instead of disabling the pin and and affecting the transmitter's use with my 27MHz and 75MHz modules, I just plug in the Spektrum after turning on the transmitter.
The body of the transmitter does have the circuitry that controls the pulse widths, but the carrier frequency of the signal is always is generated by the module regardless of the frequency band or modulation type of the RF circuit. The pulse width is not affected by the carrier frequency (channel) on a "healthy" transmitter. If a non-DSM RF module, crystals or synthesized, is not tuned properly, the pulse could be carried on another frequency and picked up by another receiver. On Spektrum modules, the frequency is "verified" and selected automatically preventing any Spektrum from taking control of a frequency that is already in use.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByCate ... ID=SPM1004
I hope Steve does not mind me reprinting his words and misspelling his last name.
Scott
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by PaulP » Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:29 pm
Scott,
When they refer to the "U" series radios, they are referring to the Futaba 7UAF, 8UAF, etc. These radios use a module that plugs into the back of it rather than a crystal. The new HiTech 6 uses a similar module. They won't tell you but the modules interchange between HiTec and Futaba. It isn't FCC approved but it does work.
The same module is used in the 3channel car radios - the pistol grips. The module is just the RF part of the transmitter, it gets its control signals from the radio and just modulates the frequency of the module.
The Spektrum modules fit into the same socket and get the same signal from the radio. It then modulates the signal just as if it were the Futaba unit. To my knowledge, they haven't approved it for air use yet since the application is a little more critical. A lost signal on a car or boat doesn't cause a catastrophic failure like it would on a boat.
If you do some research on the RMG site, you'll see where Rob Guyatt has done some research and testing on the units and had to change some circuitry in his winches to accomodate the Spektrum. But they are now using it in boats.
Any Futaba radio that uses a plug-in module is going to accomodate it. The problem is there aren't any inexpensive stick units. The 3 channel units are all wheel type. The only stick type start with a 7 channel.
Paul P
When they refer to the "U" series radios, they are referring to the Futaba 7UAF, 8UAF, etc. These radios use a module that plugs into the back of it rather than a crystal. The new HiTech 6 uses a similar module. They won't tell you but the modules interchange between HiTec and Futaba. It isn't FCC approved but it does work.
The same module is used in the 3channel car radios - the pistol grips. The module is just the RF part of the transmitter, it gets its control signals from the radio and just modulates the frequency of the module.
The Spektrum modules fit into the same socket and get the same signal from the radio. It then modulates the signal just as if it were the Futaba unit. To my knowledge, they haven't approved it for air use yet since the application is a little more critical. A lost signal on a car or boat doesn't cause a catastrophic failure like it would on a boat.
If you do some research on the RMG site, you'll see where Rob Guyatt has done some research and testing on the units and had to change some circuitry in his winches to accomodate the Spektrum. But they are now using it in boats.
Any Futaba radio that uses a plug-in module is going to accomodate it. The problem is there aren't any inexpensive stick units. The 3 channel units are all wheel type. The only stick type start with a 7 channel.
Paul P
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by s vernon » Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:02 pm
Paul,
Good info, but getting something such as a used 7 channel Futaba U series is quite inexpensive on ebay. There just happen to be 2 super 7 radios on ebay right now that will close in the next hour or three for less than $100 apiece. Right now they are both under $50 in the bidding. There is almost a constant supply if you are willing to just type in "Futaba" and slog thru the hundreds of items or search ebay under some other terms. Intermittent supply amyway.
Scott
Good info, but getting something such as a used 7 channel Futaba U series is quite inexpensive on ebay. There just happen to be 2 super 7 radios on ebay right now that will close in the next hour or three for less than $100 apiece. Right now they are both under $50 in the bidding. There is almost a constant supply if you are willing to just type in "Futaba" and slog thru the hundreds of items or search ebay under some other terms. Intermittent supply amyway.
Scott
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by Winston » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:15 am
Certainly interesting to find out that the Spektrum module will work in "other than" 3 ch radios (contrary to the information on the Spektrum website). But then, the FAQ on the Spektrum website stated that there was no such thing as a 3 ch 2 stick module radio, which is false also. The Futaba 3VC is one of the best, contrary to the statement in a prior post, to the effect that it does not exist.
"Any Futaba radio that uses a plug-in module is going to accomodate it. The problem is there aren't any inexpensive stick units. The 3 channel units are all wheel type. The only stick type start with a 7 channel."
Again, it is exciting to learn that this technology can be accessed by existing module radios with more than 3 ch. This will make it less expensive to employ and more people will be free from the "curse of the crystal".
Winston
"Any Futaba radio that uses a plug-in module is going to accomodate it. The problem is there aren't any inexpensive stick units. The 3 channel units are all wheel type. The only stick type start with a 7 channel."
Again, it is exciting to learn that this technology can be accessed by existing module radios with more than 3 ch. This will make it less expensive to employ and more people will be free from the "curse of the crystal".
Winston
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by Rob Guyatt » Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:48 pm
Hi Guys,
Not sure if I'm reading you correctly Paul. You state "The 3 channel units are all wheel type. The only stick type start with a 7 channel."
There is a Futaba 3 channel stick set available that is Spektrum compatible. It's a bit more expensive than the other two Spektrum compatible 3 channel stick radios though.
The 3 stick Spektrum compatible radios are;
Futaba 3VCS
Hitec Eclipse Pro Car
Sanwa Super EXZES
I use both the Hitec and Sanwa myself. A few friends use the Futaba. The Hitec and Futaba both use the same Spektrum Module. The Sanwa uses a different Spektrum module.
Cheers
Rob
Not sure if I'm reading you correctly Paul. You state "The 3 channel units are all wheel type. The only stick type start with a 7 channel."
There is a Futaba 3 channel stick set available that is Spektrum compatible. It's a bit more expensive than the other two Spektrum compatible 3 channel stick radios though.
The 3 stick Spektrum compatible radios are;
Futaba 3VCS
Hitec Eclipse Pro Car
Sanwa Super EXZES
I use both the Hitec and Sanwa myself. A few friends use the Futaba. The Hitec and Futaba both use the same Spektrum Module. The Sanwa uses a different Spektrum module.
Cheers
Rob
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by s vernon » Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:45 am
http://cgi.ebay.com/Spectrum-DSM-3-Chan ... dZViewItem
There are a couple of 2.4 Ghz Spektrum modules and receivers currently available on ebay (both sets in this one item) - closes in 9 hours. Regular approx $150 dollar Horizon Hobbies price and free shipping.
Nice to see that. I hope it becomes a regular thing.
Scott
There are a couple of 2.4 Ghz Spektrum modules and receivers currently available on ebay (both sets in this one item) - closes in 9 hours. Regular approx $150 dollar Horizon Hobbies price and free shipping.
Nice to see that. I hope it becomes a regular thing.
Scott
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by greerdr » Tue Aug 30, 2005 9:54 pm
Scott,
I have the Eclipse pro car hooked up on 2.4 but am not very happy.Can't seem to get 3rd channel to work other than "shifting"-not what I want to do- and have difficulty sub-trimming throttle.Are you pretty sure the Futaba 8UHPS will accept the Spektrum module?I really need a "click" on the trim lever too!!Thanks for your help.A lot of my local fleet(Palm Beach Gardens,Fl.) are watching closely for me to fall VERY flat on my face at Nationals using 2.4Ghz.
R.C.Greer
I have the Eclipse pro car hooked up on 2.4 but am not very happy.Can't seem to get 3rd channel to work other than "shifting"-not what I want to do- and have difficulty sub-trimming throttle.Are you pretty sure the Futaba 8UHPS will accept the Spektrum module?I really need a "click" on the trim lever too!!Thanks for your help.A lot of my local fleet(Palm Beach Gardens,Fl.) are watching closely for me to fall VERY flat on my face at Nationals using 2.4Ghz.
R.C.Greer
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by Larry Ludwig » Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:20 am
R.C. I certainly hope that your radio is not a problem for your own personal fun and enjoyment... but also for the reason that I am a believer that this is the way of the future, and that our kids will enjoy this hobby someday and never even know what a crystal is/was/ or could be. ![[8D]](./images/smilies/icon_cool.gif "Cool")
visit us at www.LudwigRCYachts.com
visit us at www.LudwigRCYachts.com
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by ole kistler » Sat Sep 17, 2005 8:31 pm
HI, GUYS,
I SPENT ALOT OF TIME RESEARCHING THE 2.4 RADIO SYSTEMS USING THE TWO "STICK" RADIOS. THE WEBSITES TOOK ALOT OF TIME TO FIND AND THANKS TO WINSTON MATHEWS HE FOUND THEM.
FUTABA3VC : http://rc-mushroom.com/product_info.php ... ts_id=3764
THE AIRTRONICS/SANWA SUPER EXZES@ http://www.shopatron.com/index/143.0.535.0.0.0.0
I FOUND THE HITEC ECLIPSE PRO CAR: http://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk/Ec ... r-5332.htm
THESE SITES HAVE THE THREE STICK RADIOS COMPATABLE WITH THE SPEKTRUM MODULES AVAILABLE WHICH WILL STOP ROSMARY'S GLITCH ON THE POND. OLE
I SPENT ALOT OF TIME RESEARCHING THE 2.4 RADIO SYSTEMS USING THE TWO "STICK" RADIOS. THE WEBSITES TOOK ALOT OF TIME TO FIND AND THANKS TO WINSTON MATHEWS HE FOUND THEM.
FUTABA3VC : http://rc-mushroom.com/product_info.php ... ts_id=3764
THE AIRTRONICS/SANWA SUPER EXZES@ http://www.shopatron.com/index/143.0.535.0.0.0.0
I FOUND THE HITEC ECLIPSE PRO CAR: http://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk/Ec ... r-5332.htm
THESE SITES HAVE THE THREE STICK RADIOS COMPATABLE WITH THE SPEKTRUM MODULES AVAILABLE WHICH WILL STOP ROSMARY'S GLITCH ON THE POND. OLE
- ole kistler
by Winston » Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:29 pm
Having been one of the first guys in the pool as far as the 2.4 Ghz radios (see posting above), I feel that a comment is in order about the 3 "car" radios with stick (not wheel) controls that have been mentioned here, specifically the Sanwa Super EXZES, Hitec Pro Car amd Futaba 3VC.
Of these three I would recommend the Sanwa. I own one and I am happy with it in my ec12. Range is fine and all 3 channels work wonderfully. The 3rd channel is a knob (potentiometer) on top of the radio. Hooked up to the jib trim, it is awkward to manipulate (you have to let go of the rudder side and grasp the knob with your right thumb and forefinger), but it works.
I met Bob Greer at the Jacksonville regatta. He has the Hitec. See his posting above. His third channel is useless for our purposes as it is essentially an "on/off" toggle. It theoretically could be rewired to a digital potentiometer....but I wouldn't want to go there.
The Futaba 3VC has a knob control but I am told that it is digital and not as smooth acting as the Sanwa. I don't know from experience.
There are reports of people sucessfully using the Spektrum unit with existing multi channel Futaba radios. One of our guys has ordered all of the parts to try this. We should be able to report on this within a a couple of weeks.
If anyone has more information or a different opinion on any of this, please feel free to post away. I'm just trying to help others avoid an expensive mistake.
Winston Mathews
Of these three I would recommend the Sanwa. I own one and I am happy with it in my ec12. Range is fine and all 3 channels work wonderfully. The 3rd channel is a knob (potentiometer) on top of the radio. Hooked up to the jib trim, it is awkward to manipulate (you have to let go of the rudder side and grasp the knob with your right thumb and forefinger), but it works.
I met Bob Greer at the Jacksonville regatta. He has the Hitec. See his posting above. His third channel is useless for our purposes as it is essentially an "on/off" toggle. It theoretically could be rewired to a digital potentiometer....but I wouldn't want to go there.
The Futaba 3VC has a knob control but I am told that it is digital and not as smooth acting as the Sanwa. I don't know from experience.
There are reports of people sucessfully using the Spektrum unit with existing multi channel Futaba radios. One of our guys has ordered all of the parts to try this. We should be able to report on this within a a couple of weeks.
If anyone has more information or a different opinion on any of this, please feel free to post away. I'm just trying to help others avoid an expensive mistake.
Winston Mathews
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by s vernon » Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:35 pm
Anyone who is interested in this topic might want to take a look at the IOM class discussion group. www.iomclass.org forum - general discussion. The discussion of the 2.4 ghz seemed to end October 4th.
They talked about range and receiver antennas. Those guys use only two channels so the Futaba 3VC is considered a suitable radio unlike the EC12. 3rd channel is a switch, I believe, rather than a stick and pot.
Scott
They talked about range and receiver antennas. Those guys use only two channels so the Futaba 3VC is considered a suitable radio unlike the EC12. 3rd channel is a switch, I believe, rather than a stick and pot.
Scott
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