I'll start.

Maybe my original post was a little harsh.
4 of the main sailmakers in random order. I own each one's sails so I have an opinion:
a. John B. Best kept secret especially the "test 505 types"
b. Rod Carr. Pretty and fast like Eric's on his Ozmun
c. DT. Danny said at Raleigh he is making them again and has email and we know he makes very nice sails.
d. Other guy. The champs do well with them. Stater never liked his much - said the main was built on one tack and the jib on the other. Mine are both on starboard. Plus generally a lot of foot curl.

Sorry to keep editing it. The first edit was less harsh but probably confusing. I just wrote this due to spending a pretty good chunk of money and being less than happy with the product, even tho that was a few years ago. But the 3 others have made some great sails for me, or that I bought second hand.

Scott

Scott, I am confused. What are trying to accomplish here? You missed some:
Scott Rowland and Jake Leo.

The only bad sails I have seen ( I have them all)are the ones I made for myself two years ago. I crushed them into a ball and gave them to the cat.

...94

Rick,

Yeah, I forgot about Jake Leo, but I did not forget about Scott Rowland. I just did not name him. I am not familiar with Jake's sails and am happy with John B's and Rod Carr's sails. My DTs wore out but they were very good too.

Like I said, just venting about spending a bunch of money on sails and then having them obviously set better on one tack than the other plus the dreaded foot curl; and the fact that although my experience might not be typical, it does seem to happen to other people (Stater. Kurt Wggns, another W main that I bought second hand) as well. I bought a pretty much new W suit from Dennis and the main again sets better on stbd tack. The jib has had a rough life of being run into and has expired.

You can see when you lean the boat over on each tack that near the luff the sail either wants to fall into a smooth curve along the draft stripes as it were (the good tack) or bump up so that the curve is not a smooth curve (the bad tack). At some heights the curve along a draft stripe in the leech area might look funny on the bad tack as well. It seems like this would translate into less than great performance in light air on the "bad tack". Who would want to put up with that if they did not have to.

So I also wanted to point out that we do have some choices of people to buy excellant sails from.

Scott

G'day Scott

Don't also forget some internationally available sails from down under fromt he likes of Alec Newald (Black Magic) and Gerry Power. I have used BM for years afetr doing make your own things and also now have Power. Both these guys have had suits win just about every class of rc boat Worlds multiple times.

I will have a set of each in Charleston.

Given the state of our $$ vs US they are very reasonably priced for you guys as well.

Chris
NZL1 Longtack
NZL110 Swept Away NZL128 Ketch me if U Can

Funny, I could not make my Carrs do anything.

Used sails: get what you pay for.....don;t know how long they were rolled etc.

New sails: get one with curl in an inapropriate place......send it back

I know Scott sells some of his not so perfect sails at greatly reduced prices wherther they are returns or got cut at the quality control stage.

Sailnt DT sails on the 12 and W on the J

Rick,

And also the new guy down in FL... is it Spider sails?

Scott,

This sounds more like a "rant" than a "rate" your sail maker. How many "new" sails have you purchased from "W"? Sounds like they have all been second hand.

I personally have not had any trouble with "the guy up north" except for an exceptionally long lead time. I have only heard of one bad main which he quickly corrected the problem with a replacment. Can't ask for more than that. I had also heard about the lower panel "curling up" which seemed to be how it came off the roll. I have never had this problem but I have seen people on this site offer suggestions for how to correct it.

All in all, I have been very happy with his sails, cuts and workmanship. No issues.

If you have made every effort to contact him for a resolution and he has offered none, then rant away. If you have not contacted him, at least give him the opportunity to offer a solution.

Chuck
#84

Doug,

How long ago did you use Carrs? He had some flexy battens on the mains for a while several years ago that took a one direction set from what I remember. Better now.

Of course, you can order whatever main luff curve and jib luff allowance and also fullness you think you want from Rod and that might make some difference. Eric's new Carrs are probably whatever Rod generally builds for light air and they are fast in the hands of a total novice with 2 regattas under his belt and less than a dozen Saturdays and no previous model boat sailing experience. So his cannot be too difficult to make go fast. I think he is a pretty special guy tho.

DTs are very very good and easy to use and hopefully people can start buying them again like Danny said they can.

Scott

my carrs were some 8 years ago now.....I left the "cut" up to Rod, and despite some expert tuners fooling with them it did not go well.

with that said I was new to the sticks.

I suspect that if your sails were 2nd hand you have no recourse with the sailmaker. and as I said not knowing how they were handled before your purchase might be part of your problem. Poor handling/and storage both on the roll/wall or rig can ruin sails very quickly. the material is not forgiving in that regard.

I would say what you save on buying used sails is lost in their performance and lifespan.

Scott,

Don't you build your own sails? I seem to remember you had clear mylar sails at the Nationals and did pretty well with them.

Chuck
#84

Yes, I did forget some sailmakers. We do have a nice number of choices.
Bob Szczepanski at Sirius and Chuck Black at Black Sails. I have 13 sets in the loft with 6 full rigs back East and 5 rigs at the boat. All are from the full list of EC12 sailmakers except Black and I sail his on the Soling 50 with Amen as well.

My loft is mainly because I buy new sails from new sailmakers and measure them. I have not found any that I would not use again.

Yes, there have been some unsettling views from the mains but found most were corrected with meticulous care in the set up of the spars. Shroud tension included. There have been some curl at the foot and were addressed by the sailmaker.

I have invested in the equipment I use and if there is a problem I go to the source and have had satisfaction and timeliness. If I had to complain it would be in new sails orders delivery times. I don't go there anymore and have not been shorted in performance because of it.

The Class is responsible with insuring that sailmakers are within the specifications of the Class Rules. I would, and have acted, where quality in products presented to members have not been acceptable. Sails have not been one of the issues.

You have come a long way in sailing in the last few years and I would certainly listen to matters of sailing that you present. Your eye is keen and the thumbs smooth. However, if quality issues with sails are your point, I have nothing to support this in my loft or the mail I get. If the responsibility lies elsewhere, then go there for resolution. A lot of us have not been able to make a set of sails go but I have always thought it was me rather than someone else.

One thing for sure is I will never spend the hours again I have making sails that I could not use. I can though, talk sails with a sailmaker when ordering.

...94

I don't know if this is the place for this or not. I have been making my own soling sails for years and after 6 attempts at an EC12 main I downloaded the software required. Dsigned the sail I wanted. Took the stick to my local sailmaker( a UK loft). he made some suggestions that I accepted and in 10 minutes had cut my sails out on his plotter. We used my cloth but the panels are cut with seam allowances on them and he gave me the tape required to assemble them. I have no idea yet wether they are fast but they are what I wanted at a fraction of the price. Can't expect the sailmaker to do it too cheap as I imagine the plotter is costly. When you get your sailcloth immediately unwrp it and roll it the other way. The plotter can also be told to mirror every second panel to eliminate memory.

i was most impressed with Jake Leo's sails at the 2010 champions Regatta. study the leech shape in greers pictures. plus the northsails cloth is quite innovative. i'd feel confident using them.
cheers.