Winch lash-up question

[Dave Casey]

OK, here I am, another "new guy" with aspirations of getting another EC 12 together and into the water. I have my hull on order and I have just about settled on the newer 2.4 GHZ radio.

In reading all the posts, it looks like the winch system is the currently preferred over the arm.

This seems logical as I have always sailed full-sized sailboats and am well aware of the tremendous loads that can develop on a mainsheet or jib.

Now here is my question:
In the Manual for the East Coast 12-Meter on page 81B, it shows what I believe to be the most common winch, sheet, block and bungee arrangement.

I can see no inherent problems with it except it requires an additional attachment point at the stern under the deck. Here we go again, fishing with sticks, mirrors and other homemade gadgets to reach the failed screw eye.

I have come across the winch system, which is a continuous loop of line using two blocks and no bungee cord. The continuous/no bungee system is touted as "the simple system".

Is that it? Or are there other ways of winch application? Anyone know of other lash-ups? Please point me to it.

Happy Times
Dave Casey
Del Rio, Texas

[Rick West]

Dave,
There are several similar systems being used today. Have you looked at the the Class Building site at www.ec12.info? If not you will have difficult at the moment because the navigation is down on the site. I am away from home and will try to repair it by the end of the week.

Email me if you have looked at the sheetline systems there and I will contact you later when the site is stable again. It is a site hosting problem and I am going to make a change.

I suggest you not complete a system till you have seen all the options.

...94

[Dave Casey]

Thanks Rick,
I have been over the EC 12 site many times and frankly, try, as I will, I just don’t get the “whole pictureâ€

[greerdr]

In the latest edition of Model Yachting look at Doug Bowes belt system.

R.C.Greer

[Dave Casey]

Ok. Greerdr, thanks for the shout. I'll track that down. I got a leg up on another system too utilizing an arrow shaft of all things. This system looks extremely promising. I welcome all input and once given credit to the vereyious designers, and with their permission, I hope to be able to share my findings with all hands here at the forum.

I'll keep you posted. There are a lot of good designs that have yet to make it onto the electronic checklist too. It takes time, I guess, to peculate new ideas into a class that is twenty some years old.
Thanks again for the help
Dave Casey
Del Rio Yacht Club

[Rick West]

Dave,
Now that the Building Site is fully operational, check this out for information on the RMG sheetline system.
http://www.ec12.info/RMG%20Lines.htm

...94

[Dave Casey]

Rick,
I did indeed find this page before and after viewing the "arrow system." This approach is begining to come into focus. I think my main problem is that I am in the place of the blind man describing an elephant. I have seen the arm servos to some extent and I have a handle on how they do their work.

It is that motor winch strapped to a bungee cord were I start heading south. I have a partly finished hull on order with deck already installed. With the deck already nailed down, would this factor preclude the E/C system due to bow access, screw eyes, etc?

In re-reading the line layout description, I am begining to better understand what is going on. I thank you for pointing out this reference and I am going to print a copy of this EC post and do some "wood shedding" of my own at my first opportunity.

I am at the end of the earth in Del Rio, Texas. We got water and we got cowboys but we aint got many R/C sailboats.
Thanks for the heads up and happy times
Dave Casey
Del Rio Yacht Club & Feed Lot

[Skip Quinn]

Hi Dave. I don't know who is building your hull, but contact them and ask if they can put the block in the bow for you. It can be done. Good Luck. Skip

[Dave Casey]

skip, That's another good idea and I will follow up and make sure there is an attachment point way up there in the bow. On my real Gulf 32 sailboat that area was a chain locker for the anchor windless. You could get in there by climbing up on the V berth or simply lifting a deck hatch. The chain locker had its own scuppers for over the side drainage. I had about 100 feet of 3/4 chain and 300 feet of dacron line at the end of that. About the only times I had all the chain out was when anchoring off the leeward side of santa barbara island. big cliffs and the wind really kicks up at night. Real good holding ground and there is a sea lion rockery right on the beach. You can climb up a very steep ladder and visit with the park rangers who maintain the park for the state of California. Let me get back on track.
It's better to cover all bases and have the options in place and ready to go.
My boat is on back order from larry@ludwigrcyachts.com
Larry is a fellow Texan and he does very nice work. I hope to buzz over his way (about 150) miles from here and "visit: as we say down here in Texas. 150 miles your still in third gear.Who am I kidding? It's autopilot and overdrive.
some real "Good Thinking"skip, Thanks.
Dave casey
Del Rio, Texas

P.s. my keyboard has lost the upper case "s" option. I have a new computer sitting here on the floor in many boxes. Tine. Go Fish....

[greerdr]

The bow block is the way most of us do it.Rig a "recovery" line and as Rick has said MANY times check it often (the bow block line).

R.C.Greer

[bodacious]

Dave, Go to the RMG web site and look at the photos of Rob's boats!! You can see his belt drive system there. His is above deck so you can see all the mechanicals..... now look at "MY" pictures in the MY mag. I did the same thing with a removable shaft (carbon fiber..arrow shaft..whatever!) I personally .. will NEVER use the bungee system again! I'd send some better pictures...but I think they were lost over the summer when my computers went down. Doug Bowe

[Dave Casey]

Ok Doug,
I will get right on that. I have not thrown in with the AMA group as of yet but do want to be counted and I want to get my grubby little hands on that Model Yachting Magazine.
I am I big guy 6Õ3 and I am at the point were working in small cramped spaces is no longer that much fun. That is one reason the EC 12 appeals to me. The parts are not as tiny as most of the others. That is one reason I moved from HO scale trains up the the G class which is really big and easy to work on. At least that is my take. I am very interested in the belt system, as I have seen the design element in everything from motor home fan belts to computer printer drives and appreciate what they can do. Another personality quirk is my leanings towards the systems approach. DonÕt ask me why I canÕt tell you. It just seems the right tack for me. Any time I can pull a system out of a bigger unit for service or testing thatÕs for me!
My wife (Janet) and I are packing up and heading west to the Antique Gas and steam Engine Museum at Vista California. We both volunteer our time and have some old time fun at the same time. I will be out of the computer loop for a bit but will resurface shortly. Thanks for your input. IÕll get back with you all down the road.
Thanks and Happy Times
Dave Casey
Del Rio, Texas

[Dave Casey]

Doug, OoopÕs,
I have been searching the RGM web site for Robs Boats. Just donÕt find it. Can you fine-tune my effort to check out the belt drive?
It came to me after my last post, that I had a belt drive autopilot on my Gulf 32. I mounted it on the inside steering station which had a spooked wooden wheel. I tucked the ribbed belt wheel behind the wooden wheel. It was a ÒslickÓ install if I do say so myself. The motor hung under the chart table, which made it well out of harms way. Most Gulf 32Õs had the pilot outside on the bigger stainless wheel. In the way, put it on. take it off, store it, and connect the power. Not my style I guess. IÕll keep looking for old Rob and IÕll get the Model Yachting with its info on the belt idea just to cover all my bases. Thanks for your help.
Happy Times
Dave Casey
Del Rio Boat Works

[philair]

I made a rig in my first 12 similar to that shown as a control deck in Bill's Boatyard; "http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/billsboats/page3.html"
I used an RMG winch and had the setup so that the entire thing came out of the boat with 4 screws.

The spring on the turning block keeps the continuous loop taut. The jib & mainsheets attach to the continuous sheet

I had the jib trim sheet running through a block at the end of the arm with the jib sheet running through a block at the end of the jib trim sheet. Everything worked like a charm and never fouled.

My latest boat came with an Ozmun swing arm, which though strong as a house, was pathetically slow. I replaced it with a CS-80 modified to swing 180 deg. as shown in a recent issue of MY. On 6 volts it is almost too fast, and more than powerful enough to handle my B rig in a blow.

By the way, I also use a Futaba 3801 on my rudder to slow it down. The power is nice in a blow, but the important thing is not to have the rudder so fast it acts as a brake.

Good luck.