"Room at the Mark!!!"

[skip241]

Here is the situation.

Two boats are racing to the windward mark. One boat is sailing down the layline on a starboard tack. The other boat is on a port tack approaching the mark. Both boats enter the four boat circle at aproximately the same time. The starboard boat hails "starboard". The port boat tacks and hails "leeward yacht, need room to make the mark".

Is the original boat on starboard required to give room?

Did the port boat that tacked to starboard at fault for tacking at the mark on below the starboard yacht?

Thanks. Skip, Atlanta.

[kahle67]

If the port boat is able to complete its tack to leeward or ahead of you in the 4 boat length circle without making you sail above close hauled, there is no foul. If as a result you become overlaped on the inside of the tacking boat, they must give you room.

If you find yourself above the layline approaching a weather mark, you run the risk of this happening.



Reichard Kahle
Charleston, SC

[Les Ervin]

The boat on port tack must tack to go around the mark so it cannot ask for room at the mark even if it had an overlap. The rules in place back in the 90s, when I was racing full sized boats, were different and the boat on port tack was entitled to room at the mark if it had an overlap.

[kahle67]

PLEASE OPEN UP YOUR BOOKS AND READ RULE 18.3

Reichard Kahle
Charleston, SC

[kahle67]

I will say that I wish more skipper's would exercise the duck option in this situation. At the far distances that our weather marks are sometimes, in an attempt to get a good upwind leg, it is hard to judge the layline. If you are not 100% sure of your self, you can really create a mess out there and your penalty turn is never enough to offset the damage that you can cause your friends and competition when a raft occurs.

Reichard Kahle
Charleston, SC

[Larry Ludwig]

Or a raft with a hole in it, about 2-3" in diameter. [B)]

[skip241]

Just read 18.3 and have my answer. Thanks Reichard. A bit disappointing answer when you work so hard to get the right side of the course and then have to give way to a port tacker. Oh well!!! That's the rule. Thanks again. Skip

[Les Ervin]

Skip241,

Your reply leads me to believe that you believe the boat on starboard tack fetching the mark would have to give room to the boat on port tack to round the mark. I disagree. The boat that was on port tack had to tack within the 4 boat circle to make the mark thus the boat that is on starboard has rights for room to round if it needs it and doesn't have to give room to round to the boat that was on port tack.

[skip241]

Les, my understanding of the rule is that if both boats enter the 4 boat circle at approximately the same time and the port tack boat tacks to round the mark leeward of the starboard tack boat, the now windward yacht must give room since both are on the same (starboard) tack. Thus, the original starboard tack boat must now give room to the original port tack boat.

It's the basic windward/leeward rule now. My disappointment is that all of the port/starboard rules could come to a screaching halt all within two feet of the windward mark.

But, again, that's the rule!

Thanks everyone for your input! Skip[8D]

[kahle67]

Les,

The port tack boat has to be able to complete its tack clear of the starboard tack boat without breaking rule 13 and MUST NOT cause the boat that entered the zone on starboard to sail above close hauled or miss the mark.

The only way to get away with this is if the starboard boat overlaid the mark. If he was dead on the layline, the starboard boat would have to head up above close hauled to avoid the other boat if they became overlapped and the boat that tacked would owe a penalty.

Do you have a copy of the RRS or do you need me to provide a link so you can download them?

Reichard Kahle
Charleston, SC

[kahle67]

I will add that if a boat on port tries to make a tight rounding in front of the starboard tack boat and the starboard tack boat has to alter course even the slightest amount, the tacking boat has broken rule 10 and owes a penalty.

The key is that the boat that tacks has to complete it's tack before the mark and not make starboard sail above close hauled.

Reichard Kahle
Charleston, SC

[Les Ervin]

Kahle67,

I have a copy of the rules and know where to get them online too. Thanks.

The "situation" as described said that the boat on starboard is "sailing down the layline" which at the weather mark means it is close hauled. I see nothing in the rules that would allow a boat on port tack to come to the mark and force a boat on starboard tack and on the layline give any room to round. You can add in a lot of ifs and buts, but I believe the situation as described requires the boat on port tack to duck.

The situation describes a port tack boat coming in and yelling "leeward, need room to round". The boat on port tack cannot be to leeward of the boat on starboard if they both entered the 4 boat circle at the same time. This is a case of someone trying to bully someone out of the way who doesn't have rights.

[kahle67]

This from the original poster

"The port boat tacks and hails "leeward yacht, need room to make the mark".

You are correct about port meets starboard but you must have missed this line. From this point on, rule 10 is not the issue and rule 18.3 is.

Reichard Kahle
Charleston, SC

[yachtie]

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Exactly - Boats on opposite tacks cannot be overlapped.[:X]

Barging in on Port has NO RIGHTS[V]

Starboard rules the way [^]- At any time a Port/Starboard incident is in the offing, the mark needs to be disregarded in terms of rules. If the Port boat enters 4 boats only slightly ahead of Stbd there is no way he can ever get around the mark first without infringing the Stbd tack boat. Even if the Stbd tack boat is fetching the mark he is entitled to sail his "proper course" which is towards and around the mark and only needs to change course to avoid a collision if needed. [:p]

Chris
NZL1 Longtack
NZL110 Swept Away NZL128 Ketch me if U Can

[kahle67]

You guys obviously don't understand the question asked by Skip. We are not talking about a boat on port and a boat on starboard. We are talking about two boats on starboard, one of which happened to tack onto starboard in the four boat length zone. Yes, of course starboard rules (10) but this is a discussion of rule 18.3. Please read the first post again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reichard Kahle
Charleston, SC