Rule 17 and now windward can sail below proper course...

The Racing Rules prescribe certain things. It's wise to know them, at least the basics. This area discusses the finer points of the racing rules for sailing fast.

Moderators: Capt. Flak, bigfoot55, Chuck Luscomb

Rule 17 and now windward can sail below proper course...

Postby rs vernon » Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:18 pm

The entire title would be "Rule 17 since the 2009 rule change; it seems that off the wind the windward boat in all circumstances can sail below her proper course as long as she keeps clear of the leeward boat."

This is from an actual situation, but I am curious about the larger ramifications.

Current rule for 2013 through 2016
17 ON THE SAME TACK; PROPER COURSE If a boat clear astern becomes overlapped within two of her hull lengths to leeward of a boat on the same tack, she shall not sail above her proper course while they remain on the same tack and overlapped within that distance, unless in doing so she promptly sails astern of the other boat. This rule does not apply if the overlap begins while the windward boat is required by rule 13 to keep clear.

Rule 17.2 is long gone, since 2009. Here is something I found in a blog from early 2009. Before 2009 rule 17 included 17.1 and 17.2.

"Racing Rules of Sailing 2009-2012.
Rule 17 will change: 17.1 is now just 17 and 17.2 is deleted:
17 ON THE SAME TACK; PROPER COURSE
17.1 If a boat clear astern becomes overlapped within two of her hull lengths to leeward of a boat on the same tack, she shall not sail above her proper course while they remain on the same tack and overlapped within that distance, unless in doing so she promptly sails astern of the other boat. This rule does not apply if the overlap begins while the windward boat is required by rule 13 to keep clear.
17.2 Except on a beat to windward, while a boat is less than two of her hull lengths from a leeward boat or a boat clear astern steering a course to leeward of her, she shall not sail below her proper course unless she gybes.
Rule 17.2 has been always a very difficult rule and hardly ever used. The fact that a windward boat will try to cover a leeward boat is used in close sailing like team- or match racing and a legitimate 'tactical' way to stop or slow down an opponent. The leeward boat has enough 'power' as a row boat to assert itself on the game."

So what I want to ask is...

In a club race my buddy and I are closing in on the leeward mark to be rounded to port. We are about 50 feet from the mark. We are on starboard jibe and I am leeward boat without luffing rights. There are only a couple of inches between the hulls when I suddenly notice that he has been sailing below the course that would take us around the mark. Luckily we are standing next to each other so we can discuss the issue.

(As it turns out, I guess I am lost in 2008, since I thought he could not sail below his proper course in this situation and with more misunderstandings on my part. So, sadly the whole thing went badly. And I am writing this because I still do not understand it. )

What can I do? I can tell him I am going to head up. Great, but if we were not standing close to each other I could not discuss it with him.

Dave Perry says that the windward boat in this situation breaks no rule as long as she keeps clear. What does that mean to the 2 of us? What does it mean if we are very close aboard or she will not head up when it is requested or if no communication is possible and my only option is to just head up and make immediate contact, which it seems would be frowned upon or illegal?

Thank you.

Scott
User avatar
rs vernon
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:40 pm

Re: Rule 17 and now windward can sail below proper course...

Postby Capt. Flak » Sun Mar 20, 2016 9:32 pm

The answer may be in the definition of keeping clear.

KEEP CLEAR: One boat keeps clear of another if the other boat can sail her course with no need to take avoiding action and, when the boats are overlapped on the same tack, if the leeward boat can change course in both directions without immediately making contact with the windward boat.

So the Windward boat is free to sail where she likes, but she MUST keep clear of the leeward boat. As the leeward boat in this case, you were limited to not sail above your proper course, but the windward boat had to keep clear. If he sailed down towards you so close that you could not change course without hitting him, then he clearly did not keep clear. Your buddy tried to take advantage of you being limited to not sail above your proper course, but by getting so close to you that you could not turn, he broke rule 11. Also, it seems he did not allow you to sail your proper course, which was to the mark and not below the mark. It is the Leeward boats Proper Course, not the Windward boats Proper Course. Read the definition of Proper Course. Clearly your proper course would not have been to sail below the mark.
Joe Walter #24
Class Secretary
User avatar
Capt. Flak
 
Posts: 2069
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 10:30 am

Re: Rule 17 and now windward can sail below proper course...

Postby greerdr » Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:25 pm

Excellent case.
Your buddy(W) thinks he is sailing his fastest course to the leeward mark,maybe wing-on-wing , and heading up is not necessarily faster.
I think "proper course" downwind is tricky , especially close to the mark.
Attacking from the overtaking,leeward position adds drama.
Awaiting Tom Germer's call.
R.C.Greer
greerdr
 
Posts: 670
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 5:39 pm

Re: Rule 17 and now windward can sail below proper course...

Postby tag1945 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:20 am

Scott

Rule 17 dropped the 17.2 part of the rule because it appeared to be unfair to a boat that was clear ahead and wanted to defend her position. If a clear astern boat was attempting to establish an overlap from clear astern, to leeward of the clear ahead boat, the clear ahead boat can now sail her boat to block the clear astern boat from obtaining an overlap to leeward, by sailing below her proper course. If or as soon as the clear astern boat has obtained and overlap to leeward and within two boat lengths of the clear ahead boat, Rule 11 requires the windward boat to keep clear and Rule 17 restricts the now leeward boat to not sail above her proper course. Rule 15 requires the now ROW boat to initially to provide room and opportunity for the now windward boat, to keep clear and Rule 16 requires the now ROW boat to allow the windward boat room and opportunity to keep clear each time she changes her course.
Tom Germer
AMYA #6571
User avatar
tag1945
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:22 pm
Location: The Villages, Florida

Re: Rule 17 and now windward can sail below proper course...

Postby greerdr » Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:50 pm

And what!
Leeward can head up to the mark,we get that,and windward must give room until 4 lengths,but now we are at 4!
I think the (W) boat is O.K.
R.C.Greer
greerdr
 
Posts: 670
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 5:39 pm

Re: Rule 17 and now windward can sail below proper course...

Postby tag1945 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:00 am

Prior to the 4 boat zone at the leeward mark, the windward boat must stay clear of the leeward boat ROW boat, Rule 11.

When the overlapped boats reach the zone, the inside windward boat is now entitled to Mark-Room, Rule 18.2b and the outside leeward ROW boat must provide Mark-Room to the inside boat. Because the inside boat is not the ROW boat, she can only sail to the mark and round the mark to sail the course.

Rule 14 may apply and the ROW boat or a boat or entitled to Mark-Room will be exonerated if she does not cause damage by her contact.

14 AVOIDING CONTACT
A boat shall avoid contact with another boat if reasonably possible. However, a right-of-way boat or one entitled to room or mark-room
(a) need not act to avoid contact until it is clear that the other boat is not keeping clear or giving room or mark-room, and
(b) shall be exonerated if she breaks this rule and the contact does not cause damage or injury.
Last edited by tag1945 on Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tom Germer
AMYA #6571
User avatar
tag1945
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:22 pm
Location: The Villages, Florida

Re: Rule 17 and now windward can sail below proper course...

Postby deafsail » Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:55 am

tag1945 wrote:Prior to the 4 boat zone at the leeward mark, the windward boat must stay clear of the leeward boat ROW boat, Rule 11.

When the overlapped boats reach the zone, the inside windward boat is now entitled to Mark-Room, Rule 18.2b and the outside leeward ROW boat must provide Mark-Room to the inside boat. Because the inside boat is not the ROW boat, she can only sail to the mark and round the mark to sail the course.



http://crya.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/ ... itions.pdf
Baron Bremer
EC12-81
User avatar
deafsail
 
Posts: 150
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:21 pm
Location: Jacksonville


Return to Sailing with the RRS

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron