STARBOARD/HOLD YOUR COURSE HAILS

The Racing Rules prescribe certain things. It's wise to know them, at least the basics. This area discusses the finer points of the racing rules for sailing fast.

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STARBOARD/HOLD YOUR COURSE HAILS

Postby bigfoot55 » Thu May 02, 2013 1:47 pm

HOLD YOUR COURSE! What does it mean, it is not in the rules.
My interpretation is:
If I am on PORT heading to a crossing with a Starboard boat, I know he has the right away. I evaluate heading/speed/wind conditions, surrounding boats. I decide to take a course of action,
A- tack away onto Starboard,
B- duck the stern of the starboard boat,
C- continue on as I believe I will cross in front of the starboard tacker if he maintains his present course.
If I choose C, I will hail 'HOLD YOUR COURSE, and continue on. This lets the other skipper know that I intend to cross, and a reminder that any new change in his COMPASS HEADING requires that he give me time to respond. I know that if I cut it to close and the Starboard boat has to change course to avoid contact, he will protest me and I will do a turn(s). I expect that he will maintain his course, COMPASS HEADING, and not head up. If he does head up, he will give me time to respond.

I find a 2011 definition of a "STARBOARD" hail by Dick Rose. http://www.sailingworld.com/experts/five-important-hails?page=0,0
a hail of “starboard” coming from your bowman signals to the boat on port that you intend to hold your course and expect the port-tack boat to keep clear.


The hold your course portion of the above is new to me. This would seem to reinforce the safety aspects of these crossings if applied in our sailing. The starboard boat would maintain the compass course it is on.
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Re: STARBOARD/HOLD YOUR COURSE HAILS

Postby bigfoot55 » Thu May 09, 2013 11:14 am

So we can add 'TACK OR CROSS' to our list of hails in this situation needing clarity.

"Starboard" - a hail of “starboard” signals to the boat on port that you intend to hold your (Compass) course and expect the port-tack boat to keep clear.

"Tack or cross" - in response by the Port tack boat asks which the starboard boat prefers the port tack boat to do. This requires a response by the Starboard boat.

"Hold your course"- in response by the Port tack boat, means I intend to duck or cross, and a reminder that any new change in his COMPASS HEADING requires that he give me time to respond.

comment, discussion or do we all agree?
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Re: STARBOARD/HOLD YOUR COURSE HAILS

Postby Bigjake » Thu May 09, 2013 11:55 pm

I don't like this hailing business. The rules are very clear - port stay away from starboard. This hailing will create a situation in which starboard becomes a partner to port's sailing and has to consider and evaluate the implications and consequences of port's actions - do we really need this added bother while racing our own boat? What happens if starboard hails "cross" and then needs to maneuver to clear port during port's crossing because it got a bit too tight? Then it would be "you told me I can cross" or "you changed your course" and the response "you had no room to cross" or "no, I changed course only to avoid hitting you".
My opinion - port to stay away from starboard and no hailing - do at your own risk.

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Re: STARBOARD/HOLD YOUR COURSE HAILS

Postby Chuck Luscomb » Fri May 10, 2013 10:15 pm

I think the term "Hold Your Course" is the port tack boats response to a crossing situation where the starboard tack boat has hailed "Starboard" and needs to know two things.

1-Do you see me?

2-What are your intentions?

The only responsiblity the port tack boat has is to not interefere with the starboard tack boat in anyway. By responding with a hail of "Hold your course" means that the the port tack boat is indicating to the starboard tack boat that the Starboard tack boat will not have to take any avoiding action. The port tack boat sees you...and will keep clear.

The final point here is that if for what ever reason even after the verbal exchange between both boats, Starboard had to alter in anyway to avoid port, then port did not do a good enough job keeping clear and has fouled Starbard.

"Tack or Cross" is a term I hardly hear on our race course. Big boats, you bet but not our models. I usually hear something like "Do I have you?" or "Am I going to make it?" which is a port tack boat attempting to confirm with the starboar tacker that he (the port boat )will in fact cross safely in front of him.

Although this type of comunication is not required in the rules, it sure helps knowing what the other guy is planing on doing when our vision is hampered by distance and other boat traffic. Comunicaiton on our scaled down race course is key to avoiding tangles. I encourage people to talk to each other before there is a problem.

A note to Tom Philips. Hold your course may not mean a compass course. In the case of up wind, we are sailing to a wind angle and not a compass course.
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Re: STARBOARD/HOLD YOUR COURSE HAILS

Postby bigfoot55 » Sat May 11, 2013 7:04 am

Noted Chuck, and that is the crux of the issue. In proximity to another crossing boat, is Starboard still free to do what it wants? Some still say yes. This is a yes, but... situation. The answer I think is no. It cannot 'head up, follow a shift" etc. if in doing so it prevents Port from keeping clear. I think STBD holding it's compass course is the proper way to deal with this. I think that is what Rose is saying.
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Re: STARBOARD/HOLD YOUR COURSE HAILS

Postby Rick West » Sat May 11, 2013 10:05 am

Communicate. Don't give orders. KISS. Follow Germer's prime objective - Keep Clear. One of the simplest rules to follow.

I am wait for the next dissection.
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Re: STARBOARD/HOLD YOUR COURSE HAILS

Postby Chuck Luscomb » Sat May 11, 2013 1:28 pm

Tom, The Starboard tack boat is free to follow shifts and maintain their "upwind" plan as long as they remain close hauled on starboard(doing what they would have done if port was not there) They cannot "hunt" the port tack boat and cause them to pull a foul. Port has no control over starboard in any way and if buy port saying "hold your course" means that the Starboard tack boat must now lock on to a heading until they are clear of the port tack boat, that is just not so.
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Re: STARBOARD/HOLD YOUR COURSE HAILS

Postby Capt. Flak » Sat May 11, 2013 3:04 pm

I think Tom and Chuck are agreeing with each other without saying it the same way.

When Port says "Hold your course," she is simply saying that she sees S and will avoid one way or the other. If P tries to cross, she does so at her own peril. If S has to change course to avoid her, then P has fouled. "Hold your course" is not an order from P, and S is still free to sail where she wants, but she is still limited to not changing course in such a way that P can no longer keep clear without making an even greater course change. Now, maybe I am saying it wrong. When S changes course (which may be just to follow a wind shift) she must initially give P room and opportunity to keep clear.

So S can sail higher to prevent P from crossing, but she must give P room to keep clear and P does not have to anticipate S changing course.

The bottom line is "hold your course" is an acknowledgement of S being the right of way boat. P needs to be ready to get out of the way or do a spin without discussion.

I also agree with Rick. Communications is always a good thing.
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Re: STARBOARD/HOLD YOUR COURSE HAILS

Postby Chuck Luscomb » Sat May 11, 2013 6:36 pm

Yes, we agree. Rose is correct in stating that when the starboard tack boat hails "Starboard", he is indicating that he intends on holding his course (not a compass heading)

Here is a rules question.

Two boats are going to cross upwind. Starboard hails to port. Port tacks away in response to the hail but starboard tacks on to port before he reaches what would have been ports track had she continued. Did starboard foul port by hailing "starboard" and then tacking?
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Re: STARBOARD/HOLD YOUR COURSE HAILS

Postby Rick West » Sat May 11, 2013 9:32 pm

Calling starboard is not an order to tack or do anything. It is communications. It is like a tack feint and possibly tactical. If it is irritating, all the better. Worse for the port boat is that the ROW boat will tack away for judgment thoughts to pending contact forcing a penalty on the other. It is polite sailing to hail but we have some that prey on such situations to better themselves than the better position they have already obtained. These are frivolous foul calls for self gain when no foul occurred and indefensible for all.

I have examples I consider poor sportsmanship though no foul has occurred, like the ROW boat reverse tacking a port boat that is trying to stay clear till run down and dead in the water while the other sails away.

So, if it is Rule 2 you are thinking about, it is deep water to tread?
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Re: STARBOARD/HOLD YOUR COURSE HAILS

Postby tag1945 » Sun May 12, 2013 2:14 pm

I told Tom P that I would look into this and below is a reply from Dave Perry, US Sailing Appeals Committee. I hope this helps everyone to understand what is required of both the Starboard and Port tack boats.

My personal recommendation is if the Starboard boat is changing course for any reason, including a wind shift, the starboard boat should come to a straight compass course in time so the port tack boat will have time and opportunity to KEEP CLEAR and comply with Rule 16.1.

Dave Perry's response is only an unofficial opinion and not an interpretation!

Hi Tom...here are my personal opinions on the questions you asked me; they do not represent the opinion of the Appeals Committee of which I am a member.

Port is required to keep clear of Starboard (see rule 10 and definition Keep Clear). Based on the definition Keep Clear, S is entitled to "sail her course" with no need to take avoiding action. "Sail her course" means her "straight ahead course"; not any course S chooses to sail at a moment's notice. If S can't sail straight ahead without needing to take action to avoid P, then P has failed to keep clear and has broken rule 10. S is the "right of way boat" and is entitled to sail straight ahead at all times (that's her "water").

IF S wants to *change* her course, she can for sure, but she is required to give nearby keep-clear boats "room" (space and time; see the3 definition Room) to react and keep clear of her. In other words, a r-o-w boat can't just suddenly change course and hit a keep-clear boat and claim that the keep-clear boat is at fault for not keeping clear. That is the function of rule 16.1, Changing Course...and that concept has been in the rules for a long time.

Note, rule 16.1 says that *when* a r-o-w boat changes course, she has to give a keep-clear boat room to keep clear. Hailing in advance of changing course does not satisfy rule 16.1. It is from the time the r-o-w boat actually changes course that she has to give the other boat the chance to react and get out of the r-o-w boat's way. And it doesn't matter *why* she is changing course (e.g., she may be getting a windshift), unless she is changing course as part of taking "mark-room" around a mark, in which case she would be exonerated for breaking rule 16.1 under rule 21.


hope this helps,
Dave Perry



Chuck
Here is the official Interpretation on Changing Course. It is old, but still the rule!

U.S. Sailing Appeals 33
QUESTION 33
Interpretation Requested by the Norton Yacht Club

Rule 16.1, Changing Course
Rule 16.2, Changing Course

To change course means to change the direction in which the boat is heading or moving.

Questions
What is the meaning of “change course” in rules 16.1 and 16.2?
Is it a change of course for a boat to sail an arc of a circle?
If she does not move her helm in doing so, is she nonetheless changing course?

Answers
Yes, a boat changes course when she sails the arc of a circle or any other course
where she changes direction, whether or not she moves her helm. This includes a
change from moving forward to moving backward, or vice-versa. To change course
means to change the direction in which the boat is heading or moving.

November 1974
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Re: STARBOARD/HOLD YOUR COURSE HAILS

Postby greerdr » Mon May 20, 2013 8:24 pm

This is very helpful.
It's an old saw,but we are sailing toy boats for "Bowling Trophies".
Can't we do better by talking our way around these P/S situations?
I agree with Chuck in that usually it is a case of I'm sailing away from shore looking at Starboard tacker asking them if it is a cross or duck situation;I trust you, my fellow skipper, will tell me your best guess.I'll gladly duck or tack.If you or I missed it: Port does the spin.
I hope you will give the same courtesy .
We are getting better all the time and these discussions are a major part of that improvement.
Thanks Tom for going to an "Oracle" for this answer.
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Re: STARBOARD/HOLD YOUR COURSE HAILS

Postby Chuck Luscomb » Thu May 23, 2013 10:45 pm

Thanks Tom for the detailed response.

I'm not sure I agree with your assertion that the ROW Starboard boat must lock on to a compass heading or steer straight and based on what Mr. Perry shared, he does not either. Lets be clear that in that it is both boats responsibility to avoid a collision. That said...

tag1945 wrote: IF S wants to *change* her course, she can for sure, but she is required to give nearby keep-clear boats "room" (space and time; see the3 definition Room) to react and keep clear of her. In other words, a r-o-w boat can't just suddenly change course and hit a keep-clear boat and claim that the keep-clear boat is at fault for not keeping clear. That is the function of rule 16.1, Changing Course...and that concept has been in the rules for a long time.


What Mr. Perry is saying is saying is that the Starboard ROW boat in this case can change course at any time given S gives P ample room and time to keep clear. My statement was not to suggest that S will wander or "hunt" P which gives P a moving target but that S will maintain her heading on starboard such that P can take appropriate avoiding action which is the main goal (big boats) to avoid a collision.


I think we all understand and agree that communication is key to avoiding contact in model boats and as Bob points out, we are grown men sailing for bowling trophies and that the end result is that we have fun. I also recognize that communication is not something that is suggested in the big boat rules and also not suggested in Appendix E but we should be talking to each other as another opportunity to avoid contact.

Joe, I agree with your comments.
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Re: STARBOARD/HOLD YOUR COURSE HAILS

Postby Bigjake » Fri May 24, 2013 12:48 am

I don't understand Dave Perry's statement "Based on the definition Keep Clear, S is entitled to "sail her course" with no need to take avoiding action. "Sail her course" means her "straight ahead course"; not any course S chooses to sail at a moment's notice."

What does "straight ahead course" mean? Where can one find a definition of it in the rules? Furthermore, where does it say that S is limited in a choice of course? The only limitation on course sailed comes in Rules 17 and 18 where the issue of "proper course" is raised.

Course is always the path sailed by the boat over the ground and whose direction is relative to a reference (usually true north). It has nothing to do with the heading of the boat which is the direction in which the boat points. Starboard and port basically refers to the position of her main sail which is dictated by the relative wind (see Definitions).

I believe that the rules are very clear when it comes to starboard/port issues - just study and remember Rules 10, 13, 14 and 16 and you'll know what to do. And as for hailing, in the rules there are two instances for hailing - when approaching an obstruction (Rule 20.1) and when protesting (Rule 61.1)

So, to sum up, I fully agree with Rick's comments that basically say that hailing when done in the spirit of Rule 2 is good however, as he implies, I have seen it on numerous times abused, especially in a veteran / novice mix.

I suggest that when you in a port boat want to pass astern of a stb'd one, do it if you think you have enough room and don't hail anything. Remember - you must keep clear of stb'd!.
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Re: STARBOARD/HOLD YOUR COURSE HAILS

Postby tag1945 » Fri May 24, 2013 3:53 am

Chuck

Your post quoted me the following:

tag1945 wrote: IF S wants to *change* her course, she can for sure, but she is required to give nearby keep-clear boats "room" (space and time; see the3 definition Room) to react and keep clear of her. In other words, a r-o-w boat can't just suddenly change course and hit a keep-clear boat and claim that the keep-clear boat is at fault for not keeping clear. That is the function of rule 16.1, Changing Course...and that concept has been in the rules for a long time.

This was not my quote, but a quote from Dave Perry and it was his opinion on this subject, not an official interpretation. I always try to include the rules that apply. The U S Appeals Question 33 is the rule and explains how the appeals committee handled the question of changing course. If you are unhappy with the rules, suggest a change to them.

My suggestion to the situation was to ensure that the ROW boat complies with existing rule 16.1 and rule 14. The Port tack boat just must KEEP CLEAR!
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