Overlap and Rule 17

[marcsmith]

Ok we are having a discussion in our club.

concerning Rule 11, Rule 16.1 and Rule 17 and how proper course comes into play with overlap rights.

in my jpgs the blue boat establishes itself as the leeward boat. by one of the 5 methods

1. Tacking into position under yellow
2. Yellow tacking on top of blue
3. Blue coming in from astern
4. Blue coming from leeward of yellow more than two boat lengths away
5 . yellow overtaking blue to windward

It is my understanding that blue boat CAN sail above her proper course and luff(not cross head to wind) in each scenario EXCEPT when blue establishes overlap from astern and so long as blue boat gives yellow boat time to keep clear....

[marcsmith]

last two

[tag1945]

Mark

Your first Graphic shows Blue clear ahead of Yellow. It appears that it is Yellow that is creating the overlap to windward and in that case, Blue would have full luffing and can luff up to head to wind and Rule 17 does not apply. Blue still must comply with Rule 14 and 16.

Your second Graphic Shows Blue obtaining an overlap on the same tack outside of 2 boat lengths and Blue would again have full luffing rights but must comply with any limitations such as Rule 14 and 16.

Your third Graphic shows, At position 1, that both Blue and Yellow are overlapped on the same tack. At position 4, Blue has luffed to head to wind and forced yellow to tack off to keep clear. Since you have not indicated how the overlap began, I cannot call this graphic. If the overlap began by blue overlapping yellow from clear astern within 2 boat lengths, the blue is limited to not sail above her proper course. Since luffing to head to wind can not be her proper course, Blue would break Rule 17.

Your forth Graphic shows, At position 1, Blue is on Starboard and Yellow is on port. At position 2, yellow has tacked onto starboard and she has obtained an overlap to windward of Blue. Since the overlap did not begin from clear astern within 2 boat lengths, Blue has full luffing rights up to head to wind. Rule 17 does not apply but Rule 14 and 16 do apply.

Your fifth Graphic shows, At position 1, Blue is on port tack and yellow is on starboard and blue must keep clear of yellow. At position 2, Blue has tacked onto starboard and completed her tack to leeward and overlapped with yellow within 2 boat lengths. Since Blue did not obtain the overlap from clear astern within 2 boat lengths, Rule 17 does not apply and Blue has full luffing rights and can luff yellow to head to wind. Rule 14 and 16 still apply.

17 ON THE SAME TACK; PROPER COURSE

If a boat clear astern becomes overlapped within two of her hull lengths to leeward of a boat on the same tack,
she shall not sail above her proper course while they remain on the same tack and overlapped within that distance,
unless in doing so she promptly sails astern of the other boat.

This rule does not apply if the overlap begins while the windward boat is required by rule 13 to keep clear.

[marcsmith]

you called it exactly like I call it Tom. essentially a rule my be turn on to be in force. and the only time that 17 is turned on is when overlap is established from astern and with in 2 lengths...

are you a rules judge, or just very knowledgeable...

[tag1945]

you called it exactly like I call it Tom. essentially a rule my be turn on to be in force. and the only time that 17 is turned on is when overlap is established from astern and with in 2 lengths...

are you a rules judge, or just very knowledgeable...

Mark

No I am not a judge. I just learned several decades ago the if you don't play golf by the rules, it is not golf.

Tom

[marcsmith]

tom

I play golf as well... and I've been playing with out my foot wedge for about 12 years... Honesty have a lot more fun now...(most of the time), and play on several paying "net" leagues.

I wish model yachting had payouts...

[Frandito]

How are you inserting the images to the forum?
thanks

[marcsmith]

click "post a reply"

down below the typing box is a tab for "upload attachment"

then click on browse

select your image, then click "add the file"

[greerdr]

Great discussion,exactly what I think these forums should be used for.
Thank you gentlemen for a very informative exposition.

[greerdr]

And if are a region 3 AMYA member:I hope you will vote for a "Region 7-Florida "

[marcsmith]

got my vote....

just put the ec12 on the water on sunday and after about 40 minutes of tune up sailing. torched a cheap chinese rudder servo.....time to put the hitech back in... can't have cheap, and durable in the same sentence... of course running a lipo through a servo not rated for high voltage will shorten the lifespan

[greerdr]

Oh tell me!
Tom Germer calls me to task often for charging batteries up to 7 volts plus and burning out rudder servos.Especially HiTechs.I'm going with Bob Didinsky's recommendation and stay with Futaba 9310's-lots of torque and good speed.
Have lost many places at major regattas when a servo quits.
Even had a dog at Charlestown give me a look.

[RMDJBD]

Doc

The servo I use is a Futaba 9351, you can not use a Hitech servo arms on the futaba servo it will eventuly strip the spline out.

The same 9351 is in my boat since 2005, and I am now using LiFePo 2s-2200Mah 6.6 volt when fully charged is 7.4.

[marcsmith]

I have begun switching over to hitech high voltage digital servos as my analog servo's fail... I switched over several years ago to Lipos and the analog servo's just can't handle the lipo high voltage.

[Capt. Flak]

Guys, the last few posts here have gone off topic from a rules question to a servo discussion. If you want to continue the servo discussion, start a new thread in the Electronics section. Thanks.