by tag1945 » Thu May 19, 2011 7:45 pm
Scott, Gerry
This is a major problem. I sent an e-mail to several rule officials to try and answer this situation.
You should recognize the names:
Question asked:
I have another question regarding "significant advantage."
If a keep clear boat fouled a right-a-way boat, which caused the right-a-way boat raft up with
several other boats, and the fouling boat cleared the area and completed her penalty turn and
was able to become "clear ahead" of the the boat, or boats fouled, and gained an advantage because of
her foul, require the fouling boat to retire or can she complete her penalty turn and stay astern
of the boats she fouled until the boats she fouled can continue racing.
Thanks for your help
Tom
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E-mail from Dave Perry
Hi Tom - sorry for the delay in responding to this interesting question...
I heard that Mary Pera (a highly respected rules expert) once said that the
advantage gained in the foul and subsequent penalty turn can be given back
by letting the fouled boats pass by. Seems logical to me. But I know of no
appeal or other precedent that supports that. So it will be up to a protest
committee to apply their common sense and rules interpretation to an
incident, and then that can be appealed if desired.
Dave
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E-mail from Ulrich Finckh
Dear Tom,
If you read RRS 44.1(b) you find, that a boat that breaks a rule and
therefore gained a significant advantage in the race or series shall retire. If the fouling boat after taking her two turn penalties is in front of the fouled boat, she has a significant advantage in the race. If, in this case, the fouling boat wait until the fouled boat continues to race and regain a lead, that is it not in compliance with the rules because RRS 44.1(b) requires her to retire, but the fouled boat may forget to protest and clear this incident at the bar.
Kind regards
Uli
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E-mail from Bill Worrall
Hi Tom,
In my columns in Model Yachting 147 & 153 the subject of "significant advantage" was discussed, but not in depth and certainly not looking at "giving back the significant advantage."
I tend to be a "look at the facts" kind of a person. When I look at the rules, appeals and cases I generally see "commit a foul, gain a significant advantage, retire from the race." That's what the rules say and there are not any appeals or cases that say otherwise.
However, I also feel one should "never say never." I agree with Dave Perry and feel that if a situation involving "significant advantage" warrants filing an appeal, one should be filed.Until that happens and changes my thoughts, I believe we should expect a boat gaining a "significant advantage" to retire from the race.
I think encouragingfouling boats to take a turn penalty and then hang back to give back the "significant advantage" falls into the same category as allowing marks to be touched. It just opens the door to another avenue for aggressive sailors to beat the rules in a way that was not intended by the rule writers. It seems to defy common sense and good sportsmanship to think a boat that fouls (perhaps intentionally) and gives back the gain, should be able to come back and perhaps win the race or series.
Later, Bill
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E-Mail from Ken
Hi Tom,
Normally my reply from a judges point of view would be to follow the
letter of the rule. However, after reading Dave Perry's comments and
knowing Mary Pera quite well I might temper my judgment somewhat, but
this would be a most unusual case. I also think that, if a boat fouled and gained significant advantage but then slowed her own progress to assure that the boat or boats she fouled sailed to a position ahead of her, there would probably be no protest filed and the situation would be moot.
You also must consider that her foul against one boat may result in her gaining a significant advantage over more boats than just the one she directly fouled.
Aloha, Ken Morrison
Scott, you suggested if a skipper retired, that skipper would receive a DSQ. He would only receive a DSQ if he did not retire! If you download a copy from the AMYA website of the (Heat Management System 2007) and read 3.4, you will see that if a boat receives a DSQ that boat will be scored one more point than the last boat, in the lowest heat, would have scored if all the boats competing in the <u><b>event</b></u> had finished correctly. If the skipper retires the skipper would be scored last place + 1 for the heat. 44.1b is a very good rule and should be followed.
Tom