We are having our fair share of problems dealing with following the rules.
One of the problems is that we have difficulty judging four boat lengths for the distant marks.
It seems that changing to 2 boat lengths may help with the situation, by forcing the boats to obtain or break the overlap closer to the mark. It may be easier to make the call at two boat lengths. I am not sure if it will be better, but we would like to try it on practice days first.

Do anyone have any experience with this or thoughts( I know you do!)
Can we do this with the sailing instructions?

Victim of Soicumstances

Fran

Rule 86 Changes to the Racing Rules

86.1 A racing rule shall not be changed unless permitted in the rule itself or as follows:
(a) Prescriptions of a national authority may change a racing rule, but not the Definitions; a rule in the Introduction; Sportsmanship and the Rules; Part 1, 2 or 7; rule 42, 43, 69, 70, 71, 75, 76.2, 79 or 80; a rule of an appendix that changes one of these rules; Appendix H or N; or ISAF Regulation 19, 20, 21 or 22.

<font color="blue">(b) Sailing instructions may change a racing rule by referring specifically to it and stating the change, but not rule 76.1, Appendix F, or a rule listed in rule 86.1(a). However, the sailing instructions may change to two or four the number of hull lengths determining the zone around marks, provided that the number is the same for all marks and all boats using those marks. If the sailing instructions change a rule or that definition, they shall refer specifically to the rule or definition and state the change.</font id="blue">

(c) Class rules may change only racing rules 42, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53 and 54.Such changes shall refer specifically to the rule and state the change.
Note: The second sentence of this rule takes effect on 1 Janu-ary 2011.

86.2 In exception to rule 86.1, the ISAF may in limited circumstances (see ISAF Regulation 31.1.3) authorize changes to the racing rules for a specific international event. The authorization shall be stated in a letter of approval to the event organizing authority and in the notice of race and sailing instructions, and the letter shall be posted on the event's official notice board.

86.3 If a national authority so prescribes, these restrictions do not apply if rules are changed to develop or test proposed rules. The national authority may prescribe that its approval is required for such changes.

<font color="red">You will notice that Rule 86.1b covers changing the number of boat lengths.

E1.3b has changed the definition for "Zone." The distance is changed to four hull lengths.

To comply with the rules, a Sailing Instruction must include the actual rule that you want to change, such as:

SI XX: The definition Zone is changed to Two hull lengths vice four hull lengths. This changes rule E1.3b.

That is all there is to it.

There is nothing wrong with trying this change, but I would not make this change for a AMYA Scantioned regatta....</font id="red">

Tom

Fran,
Speaking mainly to club racing and not your September extravaganza, I think that racing by the rules is important and your group seems to be aware of this. Boat lengths to people can vary. There is no tape measure out there. Communications coming into a mark almost always sorts this out with the one clear ahead calling it when at the four boat limit. Disagreement can follow but shallow to a clear ahead boat. In a stack, as we have presented in the News, the inside boat is key to understanding the rounding alignment.

Talk to the fleet to ease up on this. Micro management among club friends is not good process. Your having fun!!!

...94

Ever wonder why sailing is a dying sport? You need an attorney or be one to get through the complexities. I'm not trying to be sarcastic or put down the person providing the answer. After all he didn't write the rules but just providing an answer to a simple question. But really now, am I the only one that feels there to many rules leading to many arguments?


Joe

Fran asked a question because there is learning of it. However, at the club you can do whatever you want regardless of the rules of the road. That is recreation and why we gather in small groups.

When you go out in organized racing it is the rules that are part of race management and part of the fun is posting high. Bluffton has a good racing program and hosts of the premier events of the year. Those that come know the rules and give berth to those that do not. This is just enjoyment at a different level without complaints.

Interest in competitive organized RC sailing is not dying. It is becoming more expensive for the boats and the logistics. While there are a bit less showing up, the competitive level is far higher than ten years ago. And they love the sailing.

The Champions Regatta is an example. It is 20 boats, head to head, in single fleet with the A Fleet sailors and something to see. I will also be the quietest regatta you have ever observed.

There are rules in life whether sailing or in the rainforest of Borneo and there are those that do not care, one way or another but it does not lessen the experience in the hours we spend about our intersts.


...94

<font size="2">A reminder of why we need to know and follow the rules- <font color="blue">http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/media/08/1126/</font id="blue"></font id="size2">

That was great, Tom. My guest is that most see this differently than a judge. Tom Germer and I presented this in the News recently. I am going to save that video.

...94

Clearly a BAD BOY!
He would be tongue lashed lake-side as well as at the Sat night dinner.
And should have DSQ'd himself for the race.


R.C.Greer

Distances on the water can be deceiving, especially from a distance. During a practice session or club race try tying a small float on a twenty foot tether and attach it to the windward mark. It will drift downwind of the mark at just about four boat lengths. It will generally be out of the way and will definitely help to calibrate everyones sense as to what four boat lengths from the mark looks like from the shore. It can be an eye opener. Cant hurt.

I actually sailed a few races dragging a line with a float. The line was the length of 4 boats lengths.It did show the distance to be greater than most thought. There were other problems as you can imagine.
The idea to attach a line to a mark, only works at the windward mark. The big problems are at the other marks.

Thanks for the input, we may give the two boat lengths a try on practice days

Victim of Soicumstances

If you feel you need it at the leeward mark, just anchor the "four boat length float" and let the "Turning Mark" be the one that is tethered downwind on a twenty foot line. It can work either way and it is an eye opener.

I do hope you blokes don't mind me sticking me beak in occasionally. But I do reckon your forum is the best there is. Most forums are good but some, well, lets not go there. I'm the local rules geek in my club. That with always having something to say means I tends to stick me beak in [:D]

Anyway, the idea of trailing a buoy at 4 lengths down wind at a windward mark is a great idea. I tried a similar idea at my club but not for the purpose of giving guidance on the size of the zone but to discourage boats coming into the zone on port. One of my pet hates is how rule 18.3a can give an advantage to a boat entering on port over one entering on starboard. It also often ends up in mayhem when there's a crowd of boats arriving at the same time when at least one of them comes into the zone from the opposite tack.I experimented with placing a buoy 6 to 7 lengths directly down wind from the windward mark. This mark also had to be passed on the same side as the top mark but prior the top mark. You would need to draw a diagram to see how this would affect racing I reckon it worked well. Unfortunately my club is a democracy [;)] Most skippers didn't like the idea so it didn't last long.

By the way, I reckon that video of the Etchels bingle has more to do with looking where you are going than the rules. But for what it's worth, the rules broken in that incident were;
1024 broke rule 10 but is exonerated by 18.5b
673 broke rules 14 and 18.2b and by 44.1b she must retire.


Cheers


Rob

<font color="red">The idea to attach a line to a mark, only works at the windward mark. The big problems are at the other marks</font id="red">
No - you anchor a mark with another on the end of the 4 boat lengths line - the bottmom mark is then the turn point and the top (smaller) mark again shows the 4 boat length distance directly upwind. if there is an issue with keel dragging into the line add a weight 18 inches or more down on both buoys and have the adjoining line under water at this depth. both marks can also be anchored if a self adjusting weight system used.

Chris
NZL1 Longtack
NZL110 Swept Away NZL128 Ketch me if U Can