Missing a mark and continuing

[Frandito]

A boat passes a mark on the incorrect side and continues to race.

When she crossed the finish line...
is she DSQ or DNF?

Victim of Soicumstances

[Rick West]

Fran, the guru's would have more to say but she did not return to properly round the mark, crossed the finish line and still did not return for the rounding. This is a DSQ for not following the course designated and correcting it.

Some will know the rule numbers and a DSQ is about the rules. DNF is not but more to inability. Also you cannot be penalize twice for the same infraction except maybe for RRS 2; sportsmanship.

That is the quick and dirty of it...


...94

[tag1945]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Frandito</i>

A boat passes a mark on the incorrect side and continues to race.

When she crossed the finish line...
is she DSQ or DNF?

Victim of Soicumstances
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

After the boat has crossed the finished line and was protested for not sailing the proper course (Part 3 Rule 28.1) by either another boat (Rule E5.1) or the Race Committee (Rule 60.2a), that boat must return to the mark and pass the mark on the correct side in accordance with Rule 28.1 to properly finish. (Remember to unwind your string as you return to the mark)

If the boat does not accept the protest, and the protest committee finds the protest is valid, the boat will be scored DSQ.

Rule E5.4 allows the boat that broke Part 3, Rule 28.1 to Accept responsibility and retire from the heat or race without further penalty.
By retiring prior to the protest being found valid by the Protest Committee, the boat would receive a RAF (retired after finishing). A RAF score is last place + 1 but can be used as a throw out, unlike a DSQ, a DSQ penalty can not be excluded from the boats total score.

28 SAILING THE COURSE
28.1 A boat shall start, leave each mark on the required side in the correct order, and finish, so that a string representing her track after starting and until finishing would when drawn taut
(a) pass each mark on the required side,
(b) touch each rounding mark, and
(c) pass between the marks of a gate from the direction of the previous mark.
She may correct any errors to comply with this rule. After finishing she need not cross the finishing line completely.

60.1 A boat may
(a) protest another boat, but not for an alleged breach of a rule of Part 2 unless she was involved in or saw the incident; or
(b) request redress.

60.2 A race committee may
(a) protest a boat, but not as a result of information arising from a request for redress or an invalid protest, or from a report from an interested party other than the representative of the boat herself;

E5.1 Right to Protest
Add to rule 60.1(a): A protest alleging a breach of a rule of Part 2, 3 or 4 shall be made only by a competitor within the control or launching area and by a boat scheduled to race in the heat in which the incident occurred.

E5.4 Accepting Responsibility
A boat that acknowledges breaking a rule of Part 2, 3 or 4 before the protest is found to be valid may retire from the relevant heat without further penalty.

[Rick West]

The Guru showed up. Thanks Tom. Remember all this Fran. [:)]

...94

[Frandito]

Thanks guys

The specific situation was that in a ten boat fleet, eight of the boats turned the windward mark <u>incorrectly</u> to starboard. Two turned it <u>correctly</u> to port. All finished with much discussion
Remember this is Sun City!

So, based on the response, the eight get scored 11 with no ability to throw it out.
Correct

Victim of Soicumstances

[Chuck Luscomb]

Hi Fran,

With such a high number of boats passing the mark incorrectly, the fleet could protest the comittee for not properly displaying/explaining the course.

I realize this is casual sailing at your local club and the explainations above would cover one or two boats that might round incorrectly but in this case, it might not be their fault. Pretty sure the race should be thrown out and re-raced.

Tom thoughts?



Chuck
#84

[Frandito]

I was one of the 8 boats that passed the mark on the wrong side, and I CALLED THE COURSE!, so a bad race committee is not the reason. It could have been the Sambuca.

It was one of five races that day. I am going to DSQ the eight boats, i need to know how to score it

Victim of Soicumstances

[tag1945]

Fran, Chuck

Chuck is correct. After hearing, your more complete explanation of the events, the Race Committee should have abandoned the race. Rule 32.1 provides the authority for this and with 80% of the boats missing the mark, it does appear that the sailing instructions did not do a good job in describing the course.
Rule 32.1e requires the Race Committee to consider the consequences for all the boats in the race or series when they decide a ruling....

Fran's original question shows the importance of providing all the details of the event. Who, What, When & Where for everything Before, During, and after the event.

32 SHORTENING OR ABANDONING AFTER THE START

32.1 After the starting signal, the race committee may shorten the course (display flag S with two sounds) or abandon the race (display flag N, N over H, or N over A, with three sounds), as appropriate,
(a) because of an error in the starting procedure,
(b) because of foul weather,
(c) because of insufficient wind making it unlikely that any boat will finish within the time limit,
(d) because a mark is missing or out of position, or
(e) for any other reason directly affecting the safety or fairness of the competition, or may shorten the course so that other scheduled races can be sailed. However, after one boat has sailed the course and finished within the time limit, if any, the race committee shall not abandon the race without considering the consequences for all boats in the race or series.

Merry Christmas!
Tom

[Capt. Flak]

I also agree the race should be thrown out.

But to answer your question on what a DSQ score is, it is last place plus 1 unless you specifically spell out a different score in the SI.

All letter finishes these days are last place plus 1. DSQ, DNF, DNS, DNC, DOA, DOH, etc.

Also you can discard a DSQ provided it was not given for a Rule 2 or other Sportsmanship violation.

Tom, might have more to say on that as well.

Joe Walter #24

[tag1945]

Fran, Joe

A4.2 A boat that did not start, did not finish, retired after finishing or was disqualified shall be scored points for
the finishing place one more than the number of boats entered in the series. A boat penalized under rule 30.2 or
that takes penalty under rule 44.3(a) shall be scored points as provided in rule 44.3(c). (Sailing Instructions)

This means that DNS, DNF, RAF, or DSQ should be scored as per A4.2. All other scoring abbreviations should
be addressed in the sailing instructions if they apply.

I agree with Joe, that a DSQ awarded for challenging and loosing a protest, should not be a score that cannot
be excluded from you total score, unless it was specified in the Sailing Instructions.

Rule 90.3b - When a scoring system provides for excluding one or more race scores from a boat's series score,
the score for disqualification under rule 2; rule 30.3's last sentence; rule 42 if rule 67, P2.2 or P2.3 applies; or
rule 69.1(b)(2) shall not be excluded. The next-worse score shall be excluded instead.