finish line situation at Wisteria mark room/windward leeward

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finish line situation at Wisteria mark room/windward leeward

Postby s vernon » Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:35 am

There was a conversation at the 2013 Wisteria Cup at the finish line of one race. A long time racer told a relative novice racer that he was going to give him room at the finishing mark, but (I believe) only because he was leeward boat in a wimdward leeward/obstruction situation (and was not granting him mark room per rule 18.2.) I am curious about the actual rules involved because it seems this could get contentious in a slightly different future situation. The boats were sailing upwind on port tack at the right hand finish buoy.

From reading the rule I am thinking that the veteran racer is not entirely correct, and a leeward boat would have to grant mark room to the windward boat at the finish line, in a different situation than this one..

I do not want to get worked up about this, but someone has an opinion contrary to what I see as conventional practice and I want to be straight on what we all need to do per the rules when we are finishing.

There is a website – unruly - that wants to stir up trouble after the finish with rule 10 and “no proper course after the finish”, but I am thinking it is still pretty straightforward and logical for us. Ie: Inside boat gets mark room at the finish. Then if he is not the right of way boat he needs to do what he can to keep clear after the finish. Unruly seems to think that even though the port jibe boat has nowhere to go other than to hit the mark he has fouled the starboard jibe boat, by his mere presence “after finishing”.

Definition of Finish
Finish A boat finishes when any part of her hull, or crew or equipment in normal position, crosses the finishing line from the course side. However, she has not finished if after crossing the finishing line she
(a) takes a penalty under rule 44.2,
(b) corrects an error under rule 28.2 made at the line, or
(c) continues to sail the course

Definition of Racing
Racing A boat is racing from her preparatory signal until she finishes and clears the finishing line and marks or retires, or until the race committee signals a general recall, postponement or abandonment.

Definition of Proper Course
Proper Course A course a boat would sail to finish as soon as possible in the absence of the other boats referred to in the rule using the term. A boat has no proper course before her starting signal.

Part 2 WHEN BOATS MEET
14
SECTION C
AT MARKS AND OBSTRUCTIONS
Section C rules do not apply at a starting mark surrounded by navigable water or at its anchor line from the time boats are approaching them to start until they have passed them.
18 MARK-ROOM
18.1 When Rule 18 Applies
Rule 18 applies between boats when they are required to leave a mark on the same side and at least one of them is in the zone. However, it does not apply
(a) between boats on opposite tacks on a beat to windward,
(b) between boats on opposite tacks when the proper course at the mark for one but not both of them is to tack,
(c) between a boat approaching a mark and one leaving it, or
(d) if the mark is a continuing obstruction, in which case rule 19 applies.
18.2 Giving Mark-Room
(a) When boats are overlapped the outside boat shall give the inside boat mark-room, unless rule 18.2(b) applies.
(b) If boats are overlapped when the first of them reaches the zone, the outside boat at that moment shall thereafter give the inside boat mark-room. If a boat is clear ahead when she reaches the
zone, the boat clear astern at that moment shall thereafter give her mark-room.
(c) When a boat is required to give mark-room by rule 18.2(b),
(1) she shall continue to do so even if later an overlap is broken or a new overlap begins;
(2) if she becomes overlapped inside the boat entitled to mark-room, she shall also give that boat room to sail her proper course while they remain overlapped. However, if the boat entitled to mark room passes head to wind or leaves the zone, rule 18.2(b) ceases to apply.
Part 2 WHEN BOATS MEET
15
(d) If there is reasonable doubt that a boat obtained or broke an overlap in time, it shall be presumed that she did not.
(e) If a boat obtained an inside overlap from clear astern or by tacking to windward of the other boat and, from the time the overlap began, the outside boat has been unable to give markroom, she is not required to give it.

http://www.speedandsmarts.com/TipsTests/Question/126
David Dellenbaugh and (I believe) based on the old rules

http://rrsstudy.blogspot.com/2012/10/rr ... tical.html
This seems to say that a windward boat could shut out a leeward boat per the old rules, but that was not the intention of the rule makers. So I would assume that he is saying the windward boat cannot shut out a leeward boat under the new rules. He does not actually spell it out well enough for me. Also I cannot see where there is a effective change of language, since the new rule still talks about sailing TO the mark.

http://www.unrulyracing.com/2010/11/mar ... swers.html
Unruly - This is a situation written about under the old rules. It seems like it would be the same under the 2013-2016 rules as well.

http://www.sailing.ca/files/events/SC_A ... _05_12.pdf
Mark-Room Appeal 105 from Canada
"There is no proper course after the finish. If an outside right-of-way boat has fulfilled her obligations under rule 18, then an inside give-way boat is required to keep clear. A boat that has not cleared the finishing line and marks is racing and subject to the rules of Sections A, B, and C of Part 2."
Scott
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Re: finish line situation at Wisteria mark room/windward lee

Postby bigfoot55 » Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:35 am

Play the rules addresses these questions pretty well. http://game.finckh.net/indexe.htm
[url]
http://game.finckh.net/situat/tit_gbr/ziel_e.htm[/url]
Tom Phillips
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