First sail on my EC12

Discussions on the characteristics of the EC12. Yes, it handles different than most R/C Sailboats

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First sail on my EC12

Postby tharmer » Fri May 02, 2008 9:07 pm

Well, I got all the internal controls replaced with the good stuff...RMG winch etc. Controls working fine. My question concerns a rather severe weather helm. When I trim the jib in to the centerline of the boat and the main boom is pointing at the corner of the stern, the boat is just about balanced i.e., about 5 lengths before rounding up. If I let the jib out any at all I get an immediate weather helm that is more than 15 degrees of lee rudder can handle.



Data:
Mast: 25 1/2" from bow
Distance between jib leach and mast is about 2 inches
Rigging as per Zellanack
Jib balanced with lead
No rake (or very little)
Mast is straight
Moderate tension on Backstay (no tensionometer yet)
Shrouds and lowers lightly tensioned
Jumpers very lightly tensioned
Main seems to luff before jib
Neutral helm on wing-on-wing
Neutral when boat is pushed (like into the wind)
Lower/Lowers not attached
Wind was about 5 mph
Very little wave action
Twist approximately matched between jib and main

My question...do I just keep moving the mast forward until I don't have such a severe weather helm when the jib boom points at the shroud on close hauled.

I've read a bunch on tuning but it seems like my mast is pretty far forward as it is. I wanted to question whether I should move it farther forward or if some other thing is the issue.

Thanks guys.

-terry
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Postby tony » Sun May 04, 2008 4:56 am

maybe its your Jib entry angle - ?
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Postby tharmer » Mon May 05, 2008 11:55 am

I'm a new guy, Tony. What's the jib entry angle? Using the jib trim I could get it to work, but the jib is not supposed to be on the boat's centerline, I believe.
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Postby tharmer » Mon May 05, 2008 11:57 am

Anyway, last night I moved the mast forward another 1/2" to 25" from bow. I'll sail it today and see if that helps. The last time I moved it it helped.
-terry
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Postby yachtie » Mon May 05, 2008 11:20 pm

Terry - start looking at the photos of boats from the many regattas and you will see the jib as a rough setting points back towards the side stays. Having it on centreline will give you mega weather helm as there no slot for the air to pass through.

Chris
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NZL110 Swept Away NZL128 Ketch me if U Can
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Postby tharmer » Tue May 06, 2008 12:37 pm

Thanks, Chris. I know I'm backwinding the Main with my Jib so close hauled and this has the effect of moving the CE forward I think.

If I let the jib out the boat heads to weather so strongly that it takes almost full rudder (maybe 25 degrees) to hold it.

I measured it again last night because moving the mast forward didn't seem to be helping any more and found a substantial rake (about 1 1/2" at the masthead). My guess is that I've found the problem. I'll go out today and see. I suspect (and hope) that I'll be moving the mast step rearward as I find the spot where I can have the jib at 12 degrees or so without the boat heading up strongly.
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Postby tharmer » Tue May 06, 2008 5:50 pm

Got it! It was the mast rake. Now in a 5mph wind, at about 35 degrees of heel, it will just barely hunt for the wind. Not perfect I'm sure, but as close as I'm going to get it with the meager knowledge I have. When I go to my first race, I'll ask a bunch of questions, for sure.

-terry
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Postby greerdr » Thu May 08, 2008 9:54 pm

Get a protractor/triangle and cut out your mast step and jib sheet exit so it will be flush on the deck. Start with a 90' mast to deck angle and work from there.The jib-boom can attach anywhere from 6 to 7 inchs aft of the bow and setting the mast at a right angle is a good start point.Your moving the mast step fore & aft to control helm is right on.The particular position of your ballast has an unbeliveable influence on the overall balance of your boat;get her in a fleet race and see what you've got.

R.C.Greer
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Postby tharmer » Fri May 09, 2008 2:21 am

Will build it as you suggest, R.C. The 18th is the "Binnacle Regatta" for EC 12's. I'll find out what I have then.

-t
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Postby greerdr » Tue May 27, 2008 11:40 pm

Couldn't find the regatta results.How did those suggestions work?

R.C.Greer
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Postby tharmer » Thu May 29, 2008 12:07 pm

They worked well, RC. My boat was as fast or faster than the others. My sailing, of course, was not. Spent the afternoon doing 360's but I got good at that. Last project was to hook up the twitcher and reset the trim. I got the setup sheet from Winjammin' and set the boat up exactly as he recommends. Seems like he wants the jib trimmed a bit in from what most recommend but the boat sails clean, on her lines, and fast. I'm busy practicing for the next race where I hope to not finish last again.

Thanks for all the suggestions and help guys.

BTW, I don't think they posted the results in to the AMYA or class.

-terry
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Postby greerdr » Fri May 30, 2008 11:25 pm

If the main isn't getting backwinded along the mast the set-up is probably ok.
360's are very slow and to be avoided at all costs.Makes the "poobahs" cranky and does not endear one to your sail buddies.An expression heard around here is: "You were right-DEAD right!" because of a tangle that kept you (and the other boat-or worse multiple boats, like at a rounding) from keeping up with the fleet.
It is useful to remember a collision is not required to "prove" a foul;keep clear,protest the other boats number, and keep sailing.

R.C.Greer
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