Where are the rules?

Chat regarding International EC12 operations, country organizations, event gathering and proposed alliances.

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Where are the rules?

Postby PaulP » Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:36 pm

Here in the States, we have a prescribed set of rules for the EC12. http://www.ec12.com/admin/ClassRules.htm

What about New Zealand, Britian and Australia. Do these countries have a rule they follow? Where can we find copies of them?

Paul P . . . [:p]
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Postby Nautic12 » Sun Mar 13, 2005 2:51 pm

paul,does this post not belong in our new international section ?
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Postby RMDJBD » Sun Mar 13, 2005 4:47 pm

TOSH

ENGAGE BRAIN BEFORE FINGERS, THIS IS THE INTERNATIONAL SITE.

WHERE DO WE FIND YOUR RULES.

Bob Dudinsky
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Postby Nautic12 » Sun Mar 13, 2005 4:53 pm

glad to see one of us was awake in the early hours,nearly got the black spot !
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Postby Capt. Flak » Sun Mar 13, 2005 7:34 pm

Tosh

I think what Paul is looking for here is the common ground that we all share and where things go in different direction. If we had a copy of your rules, we could see where these differences are and begin to seriously look at what it will take to make an IEC12.

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Postby Rick West » Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:13 pm

Who is "We" white man? I would too be interested in reading the rules in other places but I am not "We," just me.

I am sure that other countries are happy with what the they have as we are. Why can't we just sail and have some chips and beer on the veranda and fantasize. I am sure that was the suggestion in the Prime string. I am a traveler and declare so.

...94 [8D]
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Postby yachtie » Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:57 pm

A copy of the NZ Rule has just been emailed direct to Rick West as Class Sec,It is a Word Document [:D] Paul a copy is also being sent direct to U.[:D] Joe if u want a copy email direct and I will send to U also.

For the rest of you interested parties, the NZ rule is based on an old US rule from the early 90's.[:D] The only major change is that our B rig = US C rig as discussed in another thread.

Chris
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&
NZL110 Swept Away
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Postby boatie » Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:53 am

Hi Paul,

Yes here in NZ belive it or not we do have a set of rules for the class. In fact a very good set of rules with only a few little changes from your rules. As the Chairman of the New Zealand EC12OA I point out we are very happy with the direction and Stability of the class in NZ unbeknown to a few ????
We thank the help of the US members over the years and look forward to keeping a frendly relationship with them. All the decussion about the hulls is incredable. True sailors of the calss know its not what makes the difference. Harness some of that engery and take it to the lake side where all good 12 skippers should be and dont lose sight of what the spirit of the 12 class is all about HAVING FUN

Davie Norris
President NZEC12OA
New Zealand

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by PaulP</i>

Here in the States, we have a prescribed set of rules for the EC12. http://www.ec12.com/admin/ClassRules.htm

What about New Zealand, Britian and Australia. Do these countries have a rule they follow? Where can we find copies of them?

Paul P . . . [:p]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
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Postby Nautic12 » Wed Mar 16, 2005 7:49 pm

i believe those rules you mention davie,have recently been
amended to remove all mention of the NZRYA is there any reason for this move ?[<b>red]how will this benifit[/red]</b> the class[?][?][?]
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Postby boatie » Wed Mar 16, 2005 8:20 pm

Hi Bob,

Yes they are in the process of being amended, as you are already
awear. This has been discussed with you about a month ago !
This is not the place to discuss NZ matters. All this discussion on the IEC12 is bring a Dark Cloud over the Land Off The Long White Cloud.[:(!]
Please keep any NZ OA matters with in that, the NZOA. This site was not intended to be used like this. [?]
I suggest if you really want to know constructivly you give me a call.
[:)][:0][:)]
Regards Davie Norris
President NZEC12OA

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by tosh</i>

i believe those rules you mention davie,have recently been
amended to remove all mention of the NZRYA is there any reason for this move ?[<b>red]how will this benifit[/red]</b> the class[?][?][?]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
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Postby Nautic12 » Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:54 am

Woody,we in Auckland NZ started with 2 ec12,s Jan 05,we now have 5,and interest for double that number.<u>exposure</u> we have taken the boats to other clubs and sailing venues,have giving the radio to any interested party and will continue this practice,spectators only have to look our way and they get a leaflet. Weed on a lake is an open invitation to us ,keep trying Woody
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Postby Stephen Crewes » Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:41 am

G'day Forum, well I have been reading your chat and certain things come forward. The first thing is , "what do we want to achieve"? Well from my point of view, I would like to achieve, some sort of harmony. to our discussions. Next, that I think we should not try not to re-invent the wheel here.We have here a top little boat , that, if we give it half a chance will change the face of R/C yachting in a one-design class.

Woody asked the question of which sailing rules do we use? And it is a very valid question.

The way I see it, we all sail the InternationalRacing Rules which we call locally, "The blue book". What we do in our individual countries, is up those individual countries. The basic thing to keep in mind is that all of these boats will pretty much sail the same in performance.

I might add that what is happening in Individual countries in regards internally, I'm not interested in. I have enough problems promoting my own backyard!! And having Fun!

And if I might say to Woody, that it doesn't matter if there is only one boat in your country or many , your country is a valid part of the World family, of EC12s. The Englishman John Cleaves was the last World champion of EC12 Match racing.

In Australia we are going through a EC12 Rules re-Write at this very moment, by our National body. This is not to say there was anything wrong with the individual rules, that have multiplied over the years from various sources. There was a need to qualify them all into one rule for Australia. So we can sail with a uniform EC12 rule for Australia. Our basic rules could be SAY 43" LWL , 1200 Sq" sail and 25lb in weight? Now you blokes who are designers out there, know that boats who all fit that type of criteria and look pretty much alike, will have a similar racing perfomance. And Perhaps, we can have our individual National rules and still fit into the family of EC12s.

This is basically what I see.
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Postby Doug Wotring » Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:01 am

If your in the process of a rules re-write, why not addopt the rules of the larger governing body?

this would move things closer to one design, and closer to IEC12 coming to fruit.

Larry, in another thread mentioned that alot of guys travel to the UK from the US for other classes. Main reason IMHO that is happening is that you can fly from the East Coast of the US to London for a couple hundred bucks and make a trip of it over a long weekend.

Downside to Down Under is the 22 hour flight, the $1000.00+ ticket cost.

I still argue if you really want to make this happen as a sanctioning body. Grandfather all your boats, Buy a few US molds, adopt the US class rules.

All of the above is easy to do if you accept the idea.

Once you do this......all you need is interested skippers.

then your problem is how to get it to be a world championship rather than a championship of those who can afford to travel with their boats. If it is going to be the latter there is no reason to have an IEC-12...just sail the boat and enjoy the company
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Postby Stephen Crewes » Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:37 am

I think I should explain a couple of things. The way we are organized is that we have a National body that oversees all our R/C classes.The EC12 class is a part of it, for we don't have Owners Associations, for we found them , quite frankly, they just don't work, for us. I personally don't take part in the Class Rules Re-writes. My job is to just "talk up" the class in Australia. That takes the form of getting the Class, good publicity and placing the right stories in the right place at the right time. I sail a EC12 and other classes and one of the other things I do is to start new R/C yacht groups at Full-Size sailing clubs.

I don't go into organizing the actual class , like in this case, EC12. I let other people do that. As you know different people are good at different things. I personally am not that interested in any particular EC12 type rule, as long as there is one rule(in this country)for this beaut boat. The persons who are actually doing this rule for this class, will work it out, to do what they see as being right for Australia and I accept that. One can have input if one desires and we have told EC12 owners this on quite a few occasions recently. This is called democratic process and I know you guys do it too.
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Postby Stephen Crewes » Thu Mar 17, 2005 10:22 am

I promised Rick I would be a good boy in regards to multipule postings. So with Rick's permission, I would like to give Doug the upside of coming to DOWN UNDER.

When I travelled to your lovely country (by United Airlines) it took me approx 11 to 12 hours to San Francisco, then approx 4 hours to Boston through Chicago. Lets not quibble here, lets say it took 18 hours? This is a lot different to the stated 22Hours(did you stop for a MALT on the way)?

The big bogy about it is going to cost you a "arm and a leg" is quite ridiculus, too. Every American Dollar you spend in Australia, you are actually getting $1.30AUD. Now Guys, one does not have to be a mental genius to know that you can have a TOP Five Star holiday here for 30% less than in America. So on Doug's figures you can have a fantastic holiday for $7000 USD. I would have put the actual cost about $5500USD. This is cheaper than doing a Tauck Tour around CapCod and the Islands.

While we are on the touring theme, I saw Woody's comment about planning a holiday. So I thought I would quickly tell you how I do it and how long it takes. I go into my travel Agent in Sydney and say to Olger. "I want to go to Disneyland in Florida",I tell her when I want to go and what I want to do there. We generally do a Tauck Tour or two after sailing. An she asks who I want to fly with. She extracts the plastic out of me and says "I will send you the Email tickets and the Itinery to you later in the day. Total time is about 11/2 hours and I'm a bit poorer coming out. Now Tauck Tours are here too. We always do Tauck Tours in America, for they are the best. If Robert Tauck is reading this Forum, how about some sponsorship for the EC12 guys in USA? Again Rick , I just had to clear that up! Thank you.
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