The NCR - Your Opinion

[Rick West]

<center>The Nationals is a major event for to determine a National Champion.</center>
<center>Or, is it really? Should it be?</center>
An open event for everyone (constrained only by local logistics) where skippers vie for positions as they can out of the crowd like we do now?
Constrained to, say 37, from the Earned List and a seasonal rating into three fleets? (15 boat fleets)
Constrained even further to about 26 for two fleets from the Earned List and rating sheet, as an invitation qualification to the NCR? (15 boat fleets)

History – The NCR was also the annual class business meeting. We don’t do that anymore.

Comments? I would like to know from the perspective that wherever the NCR was held on the East Coast or the Midwest you wanted to be on the list not because you are near the event. Thinking with this perspective how would you like to see the NCR format? Or, make the point that it should be open to anyone that is a member of the class regardless of any experience in large EC12 fleet racing.


...94

[ivorcwalton]

37 skippers from a qualified list is definitely the way to go. 15 boats in a heat makes for comfortable, not chaotic, racing. Larger fleets that include inexperienced skippers is a recipe for trouble, especially when there are port-tackers who refuse to yield to right-of-way boats.

Ivor Walton

[greerdr]

I like an open event like the last Nats.If the venue is constrained use the formula as promulgated in the class rules.20 boat fleets managed well in Charleston;can't we do so on other lakes?
P/R format racing will put those port tackers in "C" fleet pretty quickly in this crowd.
I really have faith in the EC-12 Class leadership to do the right thing.
If I can make it I will (hope Larry is headed there).

R.C.Greer

[Winston]

I pretty much agree with what Greer said. I have no problem with "earned positions", but feel that we should change our mindset about how limited the field must be. The IOM World's in October handled 76 entries in five fleets over a 7 day period using the P/R system. http://www.dailymotion.com/fra3071/vide ... e-fr_sport

There are other ways to accomodate all who wish to enter. For example:
A 3 fleet limit with A&B filled with "earned position" boats and C filled with people who are permitted to enter "qualifying" races the day before the Nationals.

Two years ago I heard complaints about the number of boats (19) on the line at a regatta I attended. Today that doesn't really seem to raise an eyebrow.

[Chuck Luscomb]

Hi Rick,

I wish that all NCR's were such that you could determine the participants by regional regattas and earned positions. The fact is that you may have a list of winners who are not able to attend the next NCR for what ever reason. May make for a very short list of sailors.

Are we not also about promoting our sport? For those who are new to the EC12 class and are able to attend an NCR, they are usally the most excited people you will meet. They get to meet a number of the classes other sailors and learn from the best in the fleet.

My honest opionion is that people who sail well and want to attend NCR's will, and they will generally place well even if there are less experienced sailors in attendance. That is the beauty of promotion/relegation. If we bar access to new sailors who want to attend these events, I think that is a mistake.

I like the system we have in place now. It secures a spot for sailors who do well regionaly and it allows for the rest of us who want to sail the ability to do so if there is room.

I will never forget the start at Charleston with 48 boats on the line. That was fun.

Chuck
#84

[Rick West]

Well said on the point of an open championship, Chuck. This is not about change but opinion. It is good to review points of view from time to time. Stump sitting is not as unprofessional as it may appear.

Let's hear some more.

...94

[Larry Ludwig]

I don't think new members should be barred from entering, but I also don't think those that have earned a chance to compete should be denied a slot because of a well attended event. I have watched R/c car and airplane events for years, that have entry lists in the hundreds, and they deal with this type of thing without any great difficulty.

Of all the classes that use either a Skipper ranking system, or a qualification system, I have not seen any great imbalance in either group being denied a chance to race. I would truly enjoy seeing upcoming events taking on the challenge of larger fields of entrants.

For me, the NCR should be a once a year event, that crowns THE champion for that year. Period. A National Championship title should go to the skipper that produces the best result during the event, and be deemed so. The chance that we are going to see events fill up is becoming more common as the years pass by. Model sailing is growing and at a rather rapid pace, and the event host clubs (I think) should be looking to larger and larger events.

If it means showing up a day earlier to help the qualification process I would be in favor of that. Also, it if means making the cut for the weekend finale, just as with a golf tournament I think that would be an acceptable format as well. Particularly in cities that have multiple clubs, it would not be beyond the scope of things to see those skippers who failed to make the big show have their own regatta on a seperate pond as a consolation event. It will still produce a lot of sailing for a lot of guys and the chance to spend a good amount of time on the water enjoying our hobby. A good race, is entertaining no matter who is racing... if it is close it is enjoyable to watch or participate.

The current method of allowing slots has not to my knowlege limited or inhibited any great number of skippers that wished to attend. If it gets to that point then the by product is to make the Regional events that much more important, and I can only see that as a good thing. Regions such as my own 5, and neighboring 6 would most likely benefit from skippers that were seeking those valuable points for the chance to get a crack at the top event. For me, that is all good as it leads back to the fundemental growth of the class in all areas, and that would be the best result of all.

[tharmer]

Well, buys, I am a new EC12 skipper, a new RC sailing skipper, and a new racing skipper. Does it get any newer than that? [;)]

I'm sure the top sailors would prefer a regatta of semi-professional racers. everyone knows what's going on, how it all works, and they can have a lot of fun together. After all they've been racing together for years.

On the other hand, if you let the riffraff in, they get a chance to see how the big boys do it...get ideas for what to change on their boats to be more competitive and, in short, become a fertile ground for the next generation of top flight skippers. Where else do they get to see the best doing their best?

I can enter the model aircraft nationals without prior experience (and have done so in Formula I). I can enter any RC Car nationals without prior experience. Why not EC12?

Just some thoughts...

-terry

[fvracer1]

From the bridge(not the Golden Gate). Ownership should not be a percursor to being allowed to run the Nationals. Perhaps having a preeqisite that the skipper has sailedand finished in a minimum of one regional prior to the National Regatta. He should send a copy of the results of this regatta in with his entry. We need to support the local clubs throwing the regionals.
From the membership of DetroitMYC, we look forward to hosting the 2008 Nationals. We will do our best to give you as much "bang" for you entry buck as we can, and wish you all a very Merry Christmas,and a "stress crack" free 2008. Peace to all and asking you to enjoy your families and loved ones this Holiday Season.

Frank Vella
Commodore, DMYC
Director, Region 4, AMYA

"When the cannon fires, harden up, tack or get out of my way"

[Larry Ludwig]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I can enter the model aircraft nationals without prior experience (and have done so in Formula I). I can enter any RC Car nationals without prior experience. Why not EC12?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Because the model aircraft nationals and the RC Car nationals don't have a cap of 40 or 50 entries. They take in hundreds of models.

As the digital age decreases the need for attention to freq overlap, the decision of how many entries will be based on the hosting club and just simply how many they wish to deal with instead of how many channels are left open.

The point being that we all seem to be in agreement, that we want to see the class continue to grow, and believe me when I tell you... buddy... is it going to grow.... now is the time to start expressing opinions, and cultivating ideas for future event planning.

Speak now and be heard while everyone is listening, no grousing later on if you don't speak now.

[Larry Ludwig]

<font color="black"><font size="4">OK,

IF YOU COULD WIN ONE.... which would you chose... ? ? ?

The National Championship Regatta

-or -

The Champions Series Regatta

Anyone can show up for the NCR, but you have to earn your way into the Series Final.

Which do you hold in higher esteem?</font id="size4"></font id="black">

[tallastro]

I would consider a National Championship the higher honor. The best of the best try to attend and win the event. A series award limits the field much more with all the travel requirements. Most series I've seen also give points to event staff. A nice reward for needed work but it doesn't say squat about how well someone sails.

I think the event should be very open while reserving some slots for top finishers in regional or other regattas. I wouldn't want to see a skipper's first regatta of the season be the nationals but other than that first-come-first serve for the open slots. Bigger events would help too but longer events won't help in my case. A weekend or long weekend is possible, a 5 day event plus travel is too much time. I don't see the Nationals in my future anytime soon. Other race formats with multiple courses running simultaneously could crown a winner fairly in a reasonable time.

[Larry Ludwig]

Well... not for me. Anyone can have one good day, anyone can have one bad day... one bad battery, one unfortunate collision and everyone moves up a notch at the Nationals.

Before you judge a "series" it would be worth seeing how it is scored... and attendance is not always a factor, particularly when there are actually THREE series that feed into a single event which is earned ONLY. Also the throwouts mean that you did not have to attend EVERY event. You can't just do well once, you have to perform at several events before even making it to the finals.

The cream will always rise to the top, but when you start with nothing but cream, you end up with... I don't know...we all know what the French call it... but... I am not going there. [}:)]

Anyone else have comments?

[MichaelJ2K]

I participated in the most recent nationals by gaining entry from the stand-by list. Initially, I was disappointed but was reasurred by Rick that there would be cancellations. Rick emphasised that participation is the key to gaining a slot for the nationals. My work schedule for the year prior to the nats did not allow me the luxury of entering more races but due to changes and circumstances of the other entrants, I made it in. I think it worked as planned but I would like to see credit given for nats entry by running a published regatta in one of the cup series races. If credit can be given for the cup races which filter into the champions regatta then it could also be given for the nats.

As they say in real estate, location is everything. Big draw races in places like Charleston or Orlando create entry limitations where Mt. Laurel or other places draw less entries. It comes down to how many entries the RC decide to handle depending on where the race is held and the size of the pond.

Mike Denest
EC12 #899

[Rick West]

Good comments and as we continue to grow with activities more and more people get to meet others. The NCR has always been popular from the re-visits you get to have and the socializing that goes on there. It is important to retain this part of the class character.

If you guys have not read the policy on this in the Admin section of the website, refresh your memory. The "filtering" is going on in a flat file that was two years old when this last NCR was held. It tracks all participants to the national schedule and their place finishing in a rolling one year data stream. It is a ranking list that tracks sanctioned events, series events and the NCR for the last three years. The total coverage is a base ranking. This is used to develop the entry list beyond those that are on the Earned List. It is also used for filling out the seeding heats fairly by evening the ranking across the three fleets. This worked out well and will be used at sanctioned events and the P/R system. This list is not public but is a tool for RC’s.

As the numbers swelled for the NCR past the final number the RC would take (52) is how Michael ended up on the Standby List and he and I talked about it. We had 55 on the list and 51 showed. We served all that could come. There were 4 on the list that when the entries closed had sailed no events in this class. This has been part of the complaints I have received. There is a true story I will share...

At the foot of Powell Street in San Francisco was a prime Cable Car stop toward the famed Fisherman’s Wharf. There are a lot of people gathered there in the summer. People are hanging by their heels clutching the rails and the Car looks like a Porcupine. The tourist is easily spotted with cameras dangling from their neck. A man in a business suit reaches up and pulls on the camera strap of one till he stepped down. “Sorry sir, I am going to work. Catch the next one.â€