Imagine two boats on starboard tack approaching the windward mark. The lead boat is clear ahead of the second boat. There is no question regarding room at the mark. As the lead boat bears off to round the mark to port, she misjudges her distance and misses the mark to starboard. Now she is going to have to jibe, sail up and then tack to round the mark in the proper fashion. By now, the second boat is within two boat lengths of the mark. (Both boats are within the two boat circle.)

Two questions.

1. Does the second place boat have to give room to the boat that missed the mark if the second place boat is on starboard and the first place boat is on a port tack back to the mark but within the two boat circle?

2. If the first place boat can complete all of the jibing and tacking within the two boat circle (both boats are once again on starboard tack), does the second place boat have to give room at the mark or is she under no obligation since the first place boat missed it originally.

Just looking for a bit of clarification. Any ideas?

Skip,

In short, the lead boat, who is in control at first, that misses the mark and has to come back looses all rights once they jibe or tack around. All pre-existing circumstances are null and void because of changing tacks in the four boat circle(18.1b).

Secondly, while on port tack, they must stay clear of the starboard tack boat. If there is room(or they think they have room) to tack under or ahead of the starboard tacker, the boat that tacked "shall not cause the other boat to sail above close-hauled to avoid her or prevent the other boat from passing the mark or obstruction."(18.3)

Happens all the time, though. It's tough to suck it up and duck behind when you were in the lead a few moments ago. Unfortunately, too often I see the recovering skipper force their way around the mark.[xx(]

RK

Let's say in this case that the course is windward leeward with no offset mark. As the two boats come around the mark they are pressed gunnel to gunnel with the inside boat making a close rounding. It would seem to me that if the boat that tacked from port to stbd had initiated the contact then it might be said that the other boat might not be able to "get away" from the tacking boat as they round the mark so he might be absolved of not giving the rule breaker room to round the mark.

But if the tacking boat did have room to squeeze between the stbd boat and the mark without breaking any rule and the gunnel to gunnel contact was initiated by the starboard (now windward) boat, then it seems that the stbd boat has fouled the tacking boat by not giving him sufficient room to make a seamanlike rounding. (?)

Scott

We now have a difference of opinion between the two replies. Personally, I like the first one from Reichard better.

Anyone want to make it the best two out of three for a ruling?

Thanks[:)]

Skip,

I did not mean to have a different opinion than Reichard. I meant to write what might happen further along in the mark rounding, but I did not write it very well. Reichard is absolutely correct.

Anyone interested in this might want to take a look at Model Yachting #127 Spring 2002 page 20. That is the Featured Class: J issue. Art Gorov takes a look at a similar situation.

The same rules apply in both examples, although I believe that in your example you are of the opinion that the port tack boat did not have room to squeeze in. I believe that whether the port tack boat missed the mark and circled around or just came in on the port tack layline is a moot point in this discussion of the rules.

Scott

I think RK is right. Once the lead boats jibes in this case she has no rights and must stand clear of the boat on the starboard tack. Skip

Skip

Reichard is correct and quotes the rules regarding a tack change within the 4-boat length circle. As stated, the thought of the rule is very simple. Starboard has rights. Clear ahead has rights. If a board having rights changes its mind or misses the mark (causing a change of tactics)all rights are removed but starboard tack. You suck it up and fall in line. At the first windward mark it will not be just the one boat position lost. However, if one is to barge in to save the mistake, it will be all those boats plus a 360 or 720.

To carry this further is to encourage a thought process, which for most is too quick, for the time needed in such instances. We currently have enough problems with such encounters. Communications approaching the rounding is our best process now and it needs to be quick and final...not a time reflect.

I believe my friend from Charlston is correct in all but the fact that missing a mark doesn't cost you your rights ..Hitting the mark does! ..But.. if you look at 18.3 (Elvstrom explains it well on Pg 212 18.3(a))you just can't be doing "stuff" inside the 2-4 boat circle.

Good discussion. Remember the circle for model boats is 4 lenghts not 2. Once the boat that missed the mark jibes it is on port and has to keep clear of all starboard boats and if there are some approaching port boats they would likely be leeward boats and so you would have to keep clear of them as well. So almost every one has rights on you at this point, a bad place to be. To keep this situation from getting much worse the best approach is to bite the bullet and wait for a clear oppurtunity to come up and tack back to starboard without fouling any starboard boats. If you fail to keep clear the bad situation becomes to or three times as costly from doing a 360 or 720.