Bob D.
Get back into the workroom and finish the hulls!!RMD rules.

R.C.Greer

The book is "The Manual for the EAST COAST 12- Meter". I want to know if you will give me a discount for many copies?

well guys I will tell you that I'm not into flopping hulls or flopping books. I'm a writer myself and see the need to do it the right way.

Thanks Joe , I'll accept that.

Ok guys, I am going to take one last stab at this. There is no effort in America to change the EC12. There is no effort to remove all the old boats from the registrar. Dumas was cut off because they chose not to be a part of the class. They were given 10 years to make up their mind.

This is a one design class, but the hulls have never been true one designs because all the molds were made by different manufacturers and often times they were modified by the various hull makers for what ever reason. It might have been a square end to the keel instead of a fairing for the rudder or a different design in the transom or the width of the keel. And since each maunfacturer had to make his own mold each mold was different meant that there were as many as a dozen different hulls out there. I am sure a class historian will tell me I have my figures wrong, but the point is that they were not a true one design.

The 95 standard was not a redesign. It simply took one of the current hulls and said all new molds will be made from that one and all manufacturers will use the same plug. The problem is that they took all these new daughter plugs and gave them to the makers and said make your mold from that. And so each one of those new 95 standard molds was slightly different because no two guys was going to make his mold exactly the same. The most noticable difference was in the rudder area. Mark Rinehart has three different rudder molds to fit the different manufacturers hulls.

Then you need to look at just how old these molds are now. Skip Hickman has make several hundred hulls from his mold. I don't know enough about it, but from what I have heard, molds can get worn out.

What these guys are doing is simply preserving the class. Dave Brawner took one of the best molds and made a new plug from it. He made it about a 1/2 thick and laid up a plywood box in it so that it could sit up on a table. Then Bob Dudinsky carefully measured the plug and smoothed out a few small imperfections. He needed some pretty sophisticated equipment to measure those imperfection as well since they were so small. Again, NO REDESIGN. After that he made a new master mold. And from that, new identical molds for each of the manufacturers to use are being made.

We are simply maintaining the current hull for the future. Since all the manufactures will be making new hulls form identical molds (not making their own molds), all the hulls will be identical in shape with the only differnces being in the quality of the workmanship and the choice of wove or matt or whatever.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out why the folks in the southern hemisphere think we are reinventing the wheel.

IanHB hit the nail on the head with the quote from Kimbal Livingston at Sail Magazine. It is the people of this class that make is so special. And it is these very special people who are working their hearts out to preserve and maintain this wonderful class.

Joe Walter #24

Thanks Bob , that is another view . A few more other views helps in the scheme of things.

The point about the overseas boats not being legal was okay too. But again we are going to do it a little bit different . We're again going to do it differently, those that come from elsewhere (like USA) they would be grandfathered in for the event. This is not hard to do, really.

I think you will find we will stick with what we've got and there is a move to take EC12 out of the name and just call it the Australian 12. Then everyone will know whats going on.

i think Treasure Island was a work of fiction,Treasure Tooling,Treasure from down under,an awfull lot of treasure about.
robert in the hope you still visit the site i believe it is still
EC12 DISCUSSIONS on the top of the page.My name is Bob(tosh)i ask or post questions to gain a little more knowledge,not to have my ears tickled.i would be quite happy to discuss on any subject you thought
as B#####t via my email address,say hello to Long John Silver for me .

[:D] I have just read a lovely quote which I would like to share with you all.
<font color="red"><font size="3"><b>"You may join a class for the boat, but you stay, for the people"</b></font id="size3"></font id="red"> from Kimball Livingston, Sail magazine.[;)]


DO IT NOW, Before it`s to late

Larry

Thank you for telling our freinds down under the way our association is handling the " 95 standard molds ".

I am fed up with all the b.... s... that is going on on this site.The site was set up for information purposes not country bashing, name bashing and stirring the boiling pot. If the people who keep stirring the pot would take this energy and apply it to their own problems, they might not have any problems.

The owners/builders down under are in the same situation we (UNITED STATES) were in, but we decided to fix the problem once and for all by dueing what we are duing now. If they want to get on the right track, they can order some molds themselfs and do what we are during with non conforming hull, then everybody can be all on the same page. As everybody knows in the U.S. only regestered builders will qualify a legal hull. If the Aussies and New Zelanders want to flip a hull, it still will be a bastard hull and will not be legal in the U.S.

This is all i am going to say on this or any other subject on the site. Untill this site gets back to what it was suppose to be (an information and notice site )i will not reply.



Bob Dudinsky
R,M.D. MARINE

Well Larry, you skipped the 'Ranting Bit' about what we were doing in OZ and it is like TOSH said , your people don't give a toss.

What we are doing Larry is trying to get all our boats to measure, to one rule. So why would we want to PONY up to WALMART for another one. The reason we are doing this is to RACE. The whole point of our existance is to RACE and to have FUN. We are not into creating "developing" (your words) alike as possible in every way, even down to "Trueing the Arc" and taking the dimple out.

Sure the boat has got one side dissimilar to the other, so what? Are we giving Sheep Stations as prizes? If we have raced for 28 years like this who cares? Just lets get on with the racing. Lighten up and have fun.

Oh and in regard to the mold, the $1,000 I mentioned in the other thread is a <u>deposit</u>.

The Class owns the mold. You get your deposit back if you return the mold (in good condition). Also, their will be a licensing fee that all suppliers pay to the Association for each hull generated. Furthermore each hull must be properly registered by the supplier prior to it leaving his control.

Treasure seems to think that the new mold is something different, when it actually is not. All this WHOLE STANDARD is about.. is just that.

READ THIS CAREFULLY AS YOU HAVE MISSED THE WHOLE POINT.

Instead of having each individual manufacturer, make their OWN mold from the master plug, one manufacturer is making the molds for ALL manufacturers to use. That's right, ALL the molds, come from the SAME plug which was a pristine `95 Standard HULL. There <u>were No changes made to it.</u> They are all made by the same shop, in the same way, so that each supplier will have EXACTLY the same tool to work with.

Even in your 26 years of this Class Steve, and all your insight, your group has not taken this step to insure that all boats are this identical.

If you want in, get on the list, and Good Luck to you and your mates, because that being said, it's complete/over/done with/ finis/beendet. If you chose to go ranting about how great you have everything figured out the first time, it will be just that... ranting.

Well Ian , (And this will be the last) after carefully reading your tome I found you did not get a mould from Australia and consequently you don't know if it is rubbish. Secondly , what you said was that you flopped your boat and made a mould that was not good and moulded off that. Thirdly you got a plug/mould off England and moulded that and that wasn't any good. Fourthly did it occur to you that these were all illegal For you did not say anything about Manufactures liscence , etc. And now your doing us all a favour. Guys I really had it, you've finally worn me down.. I've really had my fill. Sail on Mcduff, do your worst.

Tosh , if I'm going to get into trouble , it was fun talking to you. I've enjoyed your company as a tue freind and comrade.
(Do we get in trouble if we refer to people as comrades?) and when I'm in NZ shortly we will have beer or two. Take care shipmate. Over and out.

is the sun up in cinsinatti?

I don't care if the Americans don't give a Tosh a..sorry a toss about us. The sun will still come up in the morning, I think? But I think we have to be true to ourselves. And apart from one or two, I don't think we are going to be invaded by the USA for a while because we are mates. And we lurve them.

We are not competeing with them , they don't play cricket.